Journal of the Institution of Locomotive Engineers
Volume 27 (1937)
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Mills, F. (Paper No. 363)
Some factors affecting locomotive design in Western Australia. 2-23. Disc.:
23-33; 458-9.
28th Meeting of the Western Australian members was held in the Railway
Institute, Perth, Western Australia, on Friday, 28 August 1936, at 8 p.m.,
the chair being taken by J.W.R. Broadfoot.
3ft 6in gauge; 4538 route miles mainly of very light track, nearly half of
which was 45lb/yard and the remainder 60lb/yard.
Clarke, C.W. and Bhote, M.D. (Paper No.
364)
Reflections on the detail design of Indian Railway Standard Locomotives.
34-53. Disc.: 53-68.
Ordinary General Meeting of the Western Branch of the Indian and Eastern
Centre held at Bombay, on Friday, 13 September 1935: the chair being taken
by Mr. A. Richardson, Chairman of the Western Branch. The Chairman introduced
Messrs. C.W. Clarke and M.D. Bhote, Joint Authors. The Paper was read by
Mr. Bhote and Mr. Clarke gave a commentary on the slides shown on the screen.
This was followed by a Discussion
Advocated Baker valve gear as there are no sliding pairs; all joints are
pin joints and the valve rod has no fixed relationship to the design of gear
and is particularly adaptable for standardization on different classes of
locomotive; also considered material for piston valve liners; ashpans and
spring compensating gear.
Campbell, J. (Paper No. 365)
Rail cars — notes on their introduction, design and operation (with
special reference to Argentine condition). 70-135. Discussion. 135-84.
Page 131: notes that the GWR diesel railcars were based on the AEC
Q type of bus.engine. Notes local operating costs.
Journal No. 138 (March-April)
Hancock, J.S. (Paper No. 366)
Locomotive feed-water treatment. 198-221. Disc.: 221-49.
Third Ordinary General Meeting of the Session 1936-37 was held at
the Institution of Mechanical Engineers, Storey's Gate, London, on Wednesday,
the 25th of November, 1936, at 6 p.m., Mr. J. Clayton, M.B.E., Vice-Presbdent,
occupying the chair.
A substantial part of the paper was devoted to the automatic continuous blow-down
system adopted by the LMS to decrease boiler repair costs. Fig. 20 showed
the valve and Fig. 21 its application to a locomotive showing some similarity
with a class 5 4-6-0. Discussion: Verecker (Vereker?) (254) asked whether
the LMS used feed water trays and was informed that it did not: Verecker
stated that their use prevented corrosion. Selby (254-5) noted the cost of
boiler repairs in Scotland was far lower and that washing out could be at
monthly intervals. Selby and the author noted that on the Tilbury section
trays had to be cleaned every 7000 to 10,000 miles. In Scotland tubes lasted
for five years and corrosion was almost unknown.
T.H. Turner (222-6) noted the Institution has had
very few papers upon feed water: two in 1912 and one in 1924, and.in view
of the developments which have taken place in water treatment, it was time
for another. He agreed with the main findings of the Author: namely, soften
completely and the need for automatic blow down. That was his private opinion,
and not necessarily that of his chief [Gresley], who has, up to the present,
kept a very wary eye on all blow-down devices; but, has fitted his line with
more hot water washing out and filling up plants than have other railways,
he need not turn to blow down on the track so rapidly as others.Why had the
LMS Railway treated its prophets, Archbutt and Deeley, with so little honour:
because at the time of the amalgamation, the London and North Eastern Railway
had very many more softening plants than the London, Midland and Scottish.
Next, I should like to ask the Author why he takes a rather pessimistic
tone–and our President, Mr. Stanier, was rather halting in his attitude
in his Presidential Address–in regard to water treatment, when we see
the way in which it has gone ahead in the USA, in the Argentine and elsewhere,
and the strides that it has made in the last half-dozen years in Britain..
Considered that emphasis on priming and corrosion was excessive: they are
important and must be considel'ed, but more than half this Paper dealt with
priming and corrosion. It is incorrect to state that the success of
water-softening depends on the elimination of priming. We have priming, and
we always have had it. As a matter of fact, during this last summer it dropped
very considerably, although we were softening more than ever before, and
at the present time the figures show that it is less than at the corresponding
time last year. Priming is so much talked about that there is a tendency
to book time to priming, and therefore I am not sure how reliable the figures
are, but the running superintendents say that the engines are steaming more
easily, and the firemen like the water treatment and the total delays are
less than before. Perhaps it is only a matter of booking time, but of course
the management and the running superintendents will always try to avoid any
delays, and delays by priming will have to be avoided too.On the question
of definitions, it is a pity that we confuse priming and foaming, and are
not quite definite about it. We, the LNER, are trying to use "priming" for
that violent, sudden train-stopping ebullition, and "foaming" for the steady,
wet-water condition, the carry-over, which is hardly noticeable but which
is nevertheless from the economy point of view, equally undesirable. I think
tlult is a fair distinction between the two, but other people do not always
make it, and I suggest that we should try to keep to it.
We differ from the Author in thinking that we have proof that suspended
solids do play a part in the priming of locomotives. The senior chemist in
our water-treatment section is here to-night, and he may be able to give
actual cases of that, but so far as I have seen, we have evidence, that in
our engines, suspended solids do help priming. Of course, we know that the
dissolved solids must be taken into consideration, and that if we soften
and increase the dissolved solids we must expect more water changes. We shall
have very many fewer proper wash-outs, but we must have more water changes.
That water change may be done, as it is done on the London and North Eastern
Railway, with hot washing-out plants and quickly, because nearly always the
engine must go in for some mechanical work; but, if that is unnecessary,
by all means use automatic blow down. The Author refers to "continuous blowing
down" in the Paper, but I prefer the word "automatic" because we should not
call a thing continuous which is not in fact continuous, and which works
only when the regulator is opened.
I think is is quite wrong to say that partial softening is the cure
for priming-. I regard partial softening as a confession of defeat; it means
taking a wrong attitude in regard to the whole subject. We should have complete
softening, with increased water changes, and, if necessary, automatic blowing
down on the track. As a matter of fact, priming is not always increased when
you soften fully; we have had instances on our line, where, when we introduced
full softening, the priming decreased. It did not increase. Even the increased
amount of watcr change need not necessarily be uneconomical. At Doncaster,
for instance, the number of tubes saved in the sheds alone i.e., just the
materia1 cost of the tubes and not the labour-pay for the increased water
changes. '"
Turning to corrosion–If I go rapidly through these points, you will understand that, having been interested in this subject from the railway point of view for a number of years, the Author and I could go on chatting together for a very long time, but I must try to be as brief as possible under the heading- of corrosion, we are horrified by a set of tubes which the Author has exhibited, and it is rather suggested that a necessary result of softening is corrosion. In my viow, that is entirely wrong. In the very worst shed that we had for corrosion seven years ago, we were softening down to 8° or 10°; we cou]d not go beyond 8° because the priming was too bad. Several gentlemen who are here this evening will know that I am referring to Mexboro. Taking the years 1928 to 1930, and comparing them with the years from 1933 to the present time, during which latter period we have been softening right down by the addition of sodium aluminate to the lime and soda, and we find that corrosion has been very much decreased. The engines are lasting out in the sheds an average of ten months longer than before, which represents a 35 per cent gain in availability at the sheds before they must go to the shops. As a matter of fact, our water treatment section receive very few complaints with regard to corrosion, and when they trace them down they can nearly always be found to be due to the use of mixed waters or other waters' which are not softened at all. Where we have waters that are fully softened, the cases are so few that they may be regarded as freak cases, and are not worth mentioning.
The Author makes no special reference, in the section of his Paper headed "Corrosion," to Ph value and to the influence of magnesium chloride, both of which we regard as most important from the point of view of corrosion. Many of our waters contain magnesium-there is a region in the centre of the line where they are all high in magnesium and we find the addition of sodium aluminate to be of very definite benefit. We are rather surprised at the little use that the London, Midland and Scottish Railways have madc of it, despite the praise that the Author gives it in his Paper in the section headed' , Water Softening."
With regard to our practice, we base our practice on this conception, that the function of water treatment is to keep the sludge and scale out of the boilers, and therefore we cannot have any half measure's with it. If we have the conception of a balance sheet, we are spending the Company's money and we want something back for it. If we stop the softener for week-ends, and if we allow breakdowns-and electrical breakdowns and mechanical breakdowns keep cropping up with these plants-to stop the proper functioning of a good plant, then the balance sheet will rapidly be ruined. As a matter of fact, taking the present figures, our 31 plants are removing 950 tons of sludge and' 500 tons of hard scale per annum. That is what we may call temporary and permanent hardness, using the terms which, from the railway point of view, we shall understand better. These figures are based on the assumption that of the 9,000,000 tons of water that we treat in the plants, half is wasted; in taking these figures, I am assuming advisedly, from knowledge of a considerable number of plants, that half the water is never evaporated. If we assume that half the water that we soften is actually evaporated in the boilers, then on the sludge we are saving £14,000 and on the scale we are saving £44,000. Adding those two figures together, they come to well over twice the total cost of softening, including supervision by chemists and running' department staff as well.
Do not think that those figures are purely imaginary; they are not. We took ro8 engines of six different kinds in three different areas in order to build up the data upon which that estimate was made. I think we should bear in mind that that estimate. showed clearly that if we leave 5 grains of hardness in our waters we lose £24,000 of our possible saving. I think that is worth knowing. You may say, " Oh, but these are just figures, and we do not generally believe an accountant's figures and will not believe a chemist's figures." In view of that, I took the precaution yesterday of asking the local running superintendent and the local mechanical engineer whether it was safe to say that water treatment was doing any good. The reply was that the length of time in service had increased, the boilers were incomparably cleaner, less labour was now needed, the boilers were going into the shops in better condition, and three types of engines which normally had some of their tubes changed once or twice between shops now went from shop to shop without tube changes, and there were corresponding improvements in the copper stays.
I should like to take this opportunity of saying that any success which has been obtained-and I believe that we have obtained very considerable success-has been due to the gentleman whom I have mentioned, and his colleagues co-operating in such an intelligent and willing manner with the members of the water treatment section. That teamplay has helped enormously, and I feel that if i\he Author enjoys similar team-work on the L.M.S. they will very soon be setting us a high mark at which to aim.
To check up the views of the shed and the shops, I went to Mr. Thom and put the same question to him, and his reply was that the water treatment definitely was helping, and that I could say to anyone that he would defy them to say whether some of the Pacifics now coming off the Southern area, where we used to have the worst waters, had been running there or on the Scottish waters. That means a great deal, and anyone belonging to our Company will appreciate what it means, because Mr. Thom knows what a boiler is and has been in Scotland for many years, and the Scottish waters are regarded as perfect, whereas the Great Northern main line waters used to be definitely bad. ,
Mr. F. 1. Bassett remarked that he himself had presented a Paper on this subject nearly twenty-five years ago-one of the earliest Papers read before the Institution.
It was, therefore, interesting to compare the position of knowledge and practice to-day with what it was at that date.
Water treatment was now much more widely applied, although as regards the actual technique of the lime-soda process, there had not been much advance. The improvement had been mainly in the higher rate at which modern plants could be worked and the increased efficiency of fi1ters and re-agent, mixing. The base-exchange or " Permutit " process had been greatly extended in application since the introduction of reliable synthetic material. The introduction of sodium aluminate in the soda-ash treatment was a distinct advance.
The problem of feed-water control on the Iraq railways was very much more difficult than in this country, and the omission to provide for it when the 350 miles of route was first opened between Basrah and Baghdad in 1920, resulted in such frequent engine failures, that the service was greatly disorganised. Softeners were then put in, but owing to the fluctuations in the character of the water, it was necessary to work them under a system of daily sampling and control from the Government Laboratory. After two or three years the routine of softening had settJed down and failures on the road became very infrequent, but the question of corrosion then emerged, and in fact appeared to become more accentuated with the softened water. He had given considerable study to this question since about 1926, both in regard to boilers and to corrosion of pipelines buried in soil. Before discussing it, however, he would venture a few remarks on the subject of prining.
Priming, as the Author remarks, has never been strictly defined, and the term "foaming" is used indiscriminately. In chemical engineering practice it was recognised that steady or quiescent foaming would commonly occur in any type of evaporator worked at as great a rate as a locomotive boiler, and provision was therefore made to deal with the consequent" entrainment" before the vapour passed to the condenser. He confirmed the Author's observation that the tendency to foam, as measured by the" lift" of the foaming surface, was mainly dependent on the proportion of soluble salts-up to a certain point. Blow down-intermittent or continuous-was the means of keeping down the concentration.
However, he did not think this general explanation could altogether account for the sudden intense bursts of priming which occur without any apparent reason. This was observed in some cases when the engine came on a different water supply. There was reason to think that aggravated" priming" of this kind, when the boiler conrlitions otherwise had not changed, was due to introduction in the feed water of certain organic matter in small traces, which were not usually looked for in analysis. Traces of soil humus, for example, would cause priming. Most oils and fats brought about priming, though it was remarkable that some three or four of them had a strong effect in repressinK it, and the use of castor oil for this purpose was well-known. ,,It had been shown that certain scale containing traces of oily matter tended to promote priming, and that this effect ceased when the oily matter was removed. He thought there was need for further investigation on the generation of steam bubbles from scaled heating surfaces of this kind.
I t might be that on certain types of surface it was difficult for the bubbles to form, and the water ,became local1y superheated. Such effects were often seen when liquids were boiled in glass flasks; although the rate of heat supply was not altered, ebullition would slow down until it practically ceased, and after a short interval of quiescence, an almost explosive liberation of vapour would occur and continue for perhaps a minute or so in'violent ebullition, notwithstanding the rapid temperature drop accompanying the absorption of so much latent heat. This effect wasl called" bumping," and cpuld be cured by the introduction of suitable angular or porous material on which the bubbles could form regularly.
.
Wilkins, J.H.A. (Paper No. 367)
The development of the locomotive turntable. 257-85. Disc.: 286-8.
Fifth Ordinary General Meeting ol the Session 1938-37 was held at
the Institution of Mechanical Engineers, London, on Wednesday, 27 January
1937, at 6 p.m., Mr. W.A. Agnew, Past- President, occupying the chair.
Turntables could be turned by manual effort, or by electric motors (at that
time the GWR had several and the LMS a few, or by vacuum (or by compressed
air as in Germany). The first vacuum-driven turntable was at King's Cross
(cited Rly Gaz., 1935 8 February and Engineering for 1936 31
July for experience after one year in service). A similar installation
at Camden on the LMS is also described.
Table shows total number of turntables in use on "English" railways in 1936:
LMS 395; LNER 326; GWR 118 (excluding a "few small tables"; and SR 88. Only
the GWR had a substantial number of unbalanced turntables (39). The table
is broken down by type of construction and by source of power.
In the American Railway Age for 18 November 1933, an article appeared on locomotive turntables dealing with a report which was presented before the 1933 Convention of the American Railway Engineering Association by Mr. J. M. Metcalf, Assistant Engineer of the Missouri-Kansas-Texas line. The Author listed the conclusions reached by this association at the subsequent discussion, which were later incorporated in their Proceedings. These are as follows:
The above conclusions are interesting and to a large extent are applicable to all types of turntables. Although the balanced type of turntable is to a certain extent losing favour, this type is still in common use, and for many years to come it will no doubt be used in this Country and abroad, particularly where smaller tables are required. The continuous girder type will no doubt gain favour, as well as the articulated type, both of which have many advantages, particularly for the large turntables now being built. Regarding the future, welding may be utilised in place of riveting for certain sections in a similar manner to that now in use in structural steel work. There is no doubt that ball thrust bearings for the centre pivot, and ball or roller journal bearings for the carrying wheels, arc now universal, and very few plain bearing tables arc likely to be built in the future.
Power operation is becoming more and more necessary and all tables over 60 feet in length, which are in frequent use, are likely to be fitted with mechanical or electrical assistance. In view of the possibility of increasing the length of turntables almost indefinitely, there would seem to be a chance of adopting even longer tables enabling two locomotives to be turned at once. This would, of course, only apply at busy sheds or terminals.
Graff-Baker, W.S. (Paper No. 368)
The retardation of trains. 290-305. Disc.: 305-17.
Sixth Ordinary General Meeting of Session 1936-37 and the Twenty-sixth
Annual General Meeting was held at the Institution of Mechanical Engineers,
London, on Wednesday, 24 February 1937, at 6 p:m., Mr. W.A. Agnew,
Past-President, occupying the chair.
Metadyne control system.
I feel that some apology is due to the Institution for the use of the elaborate
word “ retardation.” The Paper deals principally with the question
of friction braking, but friction braking is only one form of retardation
and it seems proper at least to refer to other forms before proceeding to
the consideration of the main subject. The problem of stopping a train is
that of dissipating its kinetic energy, which varies as the mass of the train
and the square of the speed. It is clearly impossible to dissipate the kinetic
energy of any object instantaneouslq. The rate of dissipation can be measured
in horse-power, kilowatts, or any other suitable unit, and whatever means
are employed for retarding a train must be essentially limited by the possibility
of dissipating the energy at a practicable rate. Broadly speaking, the mcthods
of retardation divide themselves into two categories :-- I. Those systems
in which the kinetic energy of the train is recoiered for use elsewhere or
for future use. 2 . Those systems in which the energy of the train is frittered
away and wasted by degradation into the form of heat. In the first category
come
Journal No. 137
Whitcombe, H.A. (Paper No. 369)
The history of the steam tram. 327-79. Discussion. 380-400.
Shown in error as 367.
Fourth Ordinary General Meeting of the Session 1936-7 was held at the Institution
of Mechanical Engineers on Wednesday, 6th January, 1937, at 6.0 p.m., Mr.
O. Rulleid (Vice-president) occupying the chair.
Holcroft (384-7): see
Holcroft. Paper contains a great deal of information, both as a general
historical survey and for listing which firms manufactured tramway locomotives
and tramcars, and which systems employed steam motive power. The latter included
Accrington Corporation; the Alford & Sutton Tramway; the Barrow-in-Furness
Tramway; the Birmingham & Aston Tramway co.; the Birmingham Central Tramway
Co.; Birmingham & Midland Tramways Ltd; Blackburn & Over Darwen Tramway
Co.; Blackburn Corporation Tramway Co.; Bradford Tramway and Omnibus Co.
Ltd.; Bradford and Shelf Tramway Co. Ltd; Brighton & District Tramway
Co. Ltd., Bristol Tramway Co. Ltd; Burnley & District Tramway Co.; Castlederg
& Victoria Bridge Tramway Co. Ltd; Cavehill and Whitewell Tramway Co.
Ltd; Coventry and District Tramway Co. Ltd; Dewsbury, Batley and Birstal
Tramway Co. Ltd; Drypool and Marfleet Tramway Co. Ltd. (Hull); Dublin &
Blessington Steam Tramway Co; Dublin Southern District Tramway Co. Ltd.:
Dudley & Stourbridge Tramway Co. Ltd; Dudley & Wolverhampton Tramways
Ltd; Dundee & District Tramway Co. Ltd; Edinburgh Street Tramway Co.
Ltd. Mentions Loftus Perkins and Henry P. Holt..
Poole, A.J. (Paper 352)
Locomotive boiler proportions and design (with particular reference to Indian
practice). 403-9 (Summary). Disc.: 409-
This refers back to original presentation (Vol. 26 Journal No. 131).
Discussion is noteworthy in that the President (W.A. Stanier) was
present in Delhi and concluded the discussion. Before that L.N. Flatt noted
a few years back he was fortunate enough to be allowed to ride on one of
the fast trains at home to Doncaster with a heavy load, and was astounded
to see the ease with which steam was maintained. Almost from tbe start to
finish there was just a whisper of steam at the safety valve at periodic
intervals and the fireman did everything which, according to those advocating
mechanically operated fire doors, was wrong in practice. From start to finish
he never threw a shovel full of coal. The coal was piled in the fire
door which was never shut, and as Mr. Stanier has said, was allowed
to feed itself both forwards and sideways. The whole trip was a lesson in
the extremely efficient results obtained from the boilers of these locomotives
on the London and North-Eastern Railway.
The President (Stanier) (420-2) could at any rate accept some of the
statements made in the Paper with greater confidence than some of the claims
made regarding American practice referred to by Mr. Case. Mr. Case also referred
to fire grates having an air space of 13.5 per cent. of the grate area. We
in England are now experimenting with an air space of 55 per cent. grate
area, and we are hoping to get better results than we have had with an air
space of about 48 per cent. grate area. I think the quality of coal used
is important, and I am rather surprised at the small air space tried out
here. Mr. Case also referred to steel fireboxes. They are fitted in the States
in wide firebox boilers, and are extraordinarily successful in the Eastern
States of America.
Mr. Wrench also referred to the question of copper fireboxes and steel fireboxes. I do not think his experiment justified condemning steel fireboxes. My experience is that if you put steel fireboxes in narrow type fireboxes, trouble is to be expected, but if steel fireboxes are fitted to wide type fireboxes, they give satisfactory service. A particular example that may be of some interest is the case of the standard War Department locomotives used in France during the war, and used after the war on English railways. A good number of these, R.O.D. engines, some 250, designed by the Great Central Railway and used in France during the war were fitted with steel fireboxes. Later, after the war, when used on English railways, their fireboxes had to be replaced by copper fireboxes because of the plates cracking between stays. It seems to me that when steel fireboxes are put in narrow firebox boilers, you get trouble of that kind. Mr. Wrench also referred to the question of steel stays. Well, I have had many years' experience of steel stays. The wide firebox boilers on the L.M. & S. Rly. are fitted with steel stays except in certain areas. We did not use flexible stays, as such stays are commonly called, that have special provision for allowing certain movement, but used flexible steel stays–a stay ¾in. diameter, but flexible in itself.
Mr. Sindhu referred to the question of steam pressures of locomotive boilers, and the fact that stationary boilers have steam pressures of 450lbs. per sq. inch, and 750 degrees of superheat. Locomotive boilers with pressures higher than this have been built, but it must be remembered that they are experimental boilers; no repeat orders have been given for boilers such as the Swiss and German locomotives fitted with high pressure boilers. One is making history slowly with regard to high pressure locomotive boilers. The usual high pressure locomotive boiler pressure is 250lbs. per square inch. Mr. Sindhu also refers to the question of weig'ht in locomotive type boilers.One type of locomotive we are getting out in England keeps the boiler weight down considerably by the extensive use of high tensile steels for the boiler plates. With regard to Mr. Sindhu's remarks on water tube boi1ers, it must be realised that with a water tube boiler on a locomotive, it is very difficu1t to keep the boiler high enough to get circulation a1wavs in the same direction. Sometimes when steaming hard, the direction of circulation is completely reversed in a water tube locomotive boiler. Mr. Sindhu also, refers to the question of water softening, and its effect on the maintenance of the locomotive boiler. It is very little use putting down a few isolated water softening plants if locomotives are also to draw water from stations not provided with water softening plants. On the L. M. & S. Rly. we have installed water softening plants. for the whole of the North-Western Section. I am afraid it is too early for me to give you figures relating to savings effected on maintenance. We have 20 locomotives working on a particular section, where water softening plants are installed, and some of these locomotives have run 10,000 miles between washing outs. Of course, in some parts of Scotland, where the water is remarkably soft, very little boiler trouble is experienced and installing water softening plants in such districts is hardly justified.
Rajangam, Sri (Paper No. 370).
Some factors contributing to derailments of railway rolling stock. 427-46.
Discussion. 446-8.
Shown in error as Paper 368.
Branch Meeting of the Southern Section of the Indian and Eastern Centre of
the Institution was held on Saturday, 11th July, 1936, at the Railway Institute,
Perambur, Mr. E. L. Roberts, Chairman of the Branch, occupying the chair.
Journal No. 138
President of the Institution, Session, 1937/38: Lieutenant-Colonel
Francis Richard Collins, D.S.O. 461.
See biographical
material.
Noble, E.C. (Paper No. 371)
The economics of locomotive engineering. 478- 99. Disc.: 499-514.
Fourth Quarterly Meeting of the 1936 Session of the South-American
Centre held Friday, 18 December 1936, at Ibicuy, the chair being occupied
by Mr. O. Steven, Chairman of the Centre. The programme of the members, by
the kind invitation of Mr. John Wilson, General Manager, included a visit
to the Entre Rios Railway Ferry, which runs between Ibicuy, Zarate and Puerto,
Buenos Ayres, the stock consisting of five boats, three with four tracks
and two with three tracks.
MacAulay, D. (Paper No. 372)
Some notes on the mechanical aspect of working steam-operated suburban services
with particular reference to the Eastern Bengal Railway locals around Calcutta.
517-40. Disc.: 540-51.
Ordinary General Meeting of the Indian and Eastern Centre (Eastern
Branch) was held at the Great Eastern Hotel, Calcutta, on the 26 June 1936,
at 6.30 p.m., Mr. L. N. Flatt, Chairman of the Centre, occupying the chair.
The Chairman (L.N. Flatt) referred to the opating practices adopted at Liverpool
Street station in London: It will be noted that the Author refers to the
intensive service entering Liverpool Street Station and states that the fireman
uncouples on arrival and then takes water. Having worked into Liverpool Street
when firing, I can assure him that I have suffered quite good tempercd but,
nevertheless, caustic criticism from my driver when doing these things in
the order quoted by the Author. The time allowed at Liverpool Street is so
short that the first essential is to get the water column into the tank opening
and open the cock, after which the engine can be uncoupled. It is only in
this way that the full quantity of water can be, obtained before having to
follow down the outgoing train to enter the refuge siding. I mention this
point as it emphasises how very important the odd few seconds are, when working
intensified suburban services.
Scott, J.I. (Paper No. 373)
Roller bearings. 552-9. Disc.: 559-61.
Third Ordinary General Meeting of the Scottish Centre was held in
the Societies Room, Royal Technical College, on Thursday, 17 December 1936,
at 7.30 p.m., the Chair being taken by Mr. G. A. Musgrave: also next two
papers
Stewart-Fergusson, I.D. (Paper No. 374)
New methods of locomotive cylinder production. 562-70. Disc.: 570-2.
New process in which the whole cylinder was made of cores. For this
purpose sharp sand containing rather more than the usual amount of binding
oil was used. Before starting to make the cores, a shallow box, the size
of the moulding box, was filled with sand, levelled off, and baked. This
forms a table or foundation for the whole mould The bottom core is the first
and largest one to be made. The core box was filled with the sand and the
core was strongly reinforced with bars of iron and sprigs. These are here
to give strength to the core, but, what is more important, to enable it to
be lifted once it has been baked.
Advantages of new moulding process:
1. Provided that several cylinders of the one class were being produced,
it was quicker than by the usual method and consequently cheaper.
(2) In the event of a cylinder bcing required in a desperate hurry, it was
possible to have as many as a dozen men working at once making thc cores
without interfering with each other. This would be quite impossible on the
ordinary mould where only two men could work at once.
(3) The main advantage, however, was that very little skilled labour was
needed to make a cylinder by this method, and an apprentice with a limited
amount of foundry experience could make one of these cylinders unaided.
Turner, James (Paper No. 375)
The locomotive boiler. 573-9.
Read 17 December 1936, in Glasgow. A graduate paper.
The most important rule in boiler design is to make the boiler as large as
loading gauge clearances and permissible axle loading will allow. Many
locomotives have been designed which have been definitely "under-boilered",
but “over-boilering” is an unknown complaint. For a particular
engine, it can be taken that the larger the boiler, particularly as regards
grate area, firebox volume and tube cross-sectional area, the lower will
be the fuel costs, or in other words, the more efficient will the boiler
be. Larger boilers, too, invariably reduce maintenance costs.
Some average boiler dimensions were appended. The column headed "Standard
British Boiler" is composed of figures obtained by averaging the particular
value for about a dozen express locomotives of the LMSR., LNER. and a few
of the Southern Railway. The Great Western Railway has been put in a separate
column to show the difference in grate area, firebox heating surface and
superheater heating surface. The typical G.W.R. narrow deep firebox was reflected
in the difference between its grate area and heating surface compared with
what might be called the " Standard British Boiler. '' The difference between
their respective superheater heating surfaces is worthy of comment.
Collins, F.R.
Presidential Address. 586-625.
Richly illustrated: main theme was effects of gauge. Began with WW1
2ft gauge 10 ton capacity bogie wagon. Noted that he could remember the GWR
broad gauge conversion. Noted the multiplicity of gauges in India and Australia
and implied thatt high capacity could be achieved on the standard gauge.
Illustrated this by a Virginian Railways gondola car which ran on six-wheel
bogies and had an axle load of 24 tons. Coal trains of 10,000 tons could
be operated. The LNER operated 50 ton capacity bogie wagons. Most of the
Address related to freight, but modern passenger stock was also
considered.
Wall, H. (Paper No. 376)
Iron and copper pipe working. 626-40. Disc.: 640-2.
Seventh Ordinary General Meeting of the Western Branch of the Indian
and Eastern Centre held in Bombay on 17 December 1935: A. Richardson occupying
the Chair.
Scott, J.S. (Paper No. 377)
The lining-up of locomotive frames, cylinders and axleboxes. 643-66. Disc.:
666-76.
Seventh Ordinary General Meeting of the Session 1936-37 held at
Institution of Mechanical Engineers, London, on Wednesday, 24 March 1937,
at 6 p.m.. W.A. Stanier, President of the Institution, occupying the chair.
The opto-mechanical method of aligning frames using a telescope was covered
on p. 657 et sqe. H. Chambers (666) was a little disappointed to see, on
the form issued to the shops for repairs to axleboxes, with regard to the
dimensions of the journal, fillets on the left-hand journal of ¾in.
and 1in. and on the same axle, but on the other side, 7/8in. and 1in., and
I hope, though the author said that the shops had no need for a drawing,
that the foregoing is due to an error in the dimensions on the form.
I was struck, too, by the Author's remark that on axles where collars were provided very great care was taken to give a clearance on the collar side. My expeience was that the inside co11ar was provided to take a share of the lateral thrust of the axlebox and so reduce the pressure on the opposite wheel boss. I agree that with modern locomot!ves, with a large wheel boss, collars are not being provided on the journals of the axles.
The President has already said that the mechanical method of setting out the frames is that used on the London Midland & Scottish Railway, and I have no doubt that a similar method is in general use in this Country. With regard to the alternative optical method, I am inclined to say that it is a complicated system, and I should like to ask the Author what is the time required to set up the Zeiss optical apparatus as compared with the mechanical system? 1 would also point out that this question is affected by the fact that at Crewe and at other large works the belt system is employed; would the Author recommend the optical system, bearing in mind the engine is taken from stand to stand, as the repairs progress?
Webber, A.F. (Paper No. 378).
The proportions of locomotive boilers. 688-725. Disc.: 726-63. 8 diagrs.,
8 tables. Bibliog.
Second Ordinary General Meeting of the Session, 1937-38, was held
at the Institution of Mechanical Engineers, on Wednesday, 27 October, 1937,
at 18.00:. F. R. Collins, President, in the chair.
Analysis of boiler design on a comparative basis: included LNWR Precedent,
Greater Britain, CR Dunalastair, LNWR Precursor and George the Fifth, GNR
C1 Atlantics (superheated and sarurated), LSWR D15 and T14, D11 (Director
class), Claughton, B3 (Lord Faringdon), King Arthur, SR N15X (Remembrance)
class, Patriot 5XP, V (Schools), Castle, A3 Pacific, A4 Pacific, 7P Princess
Royal, 7P Coronation and LNER P2 class in relation to 5 theoretical firing
rates (40 to 120), smokebox temperature, heat output and efficiency..
The President, F.R. Collins, (page 726) opened the discussion: he had been
a Webb pupil: and noticed that the design of the Greater Britain boiler
was received with a certain amount of amusement. His impression of what had
been referred to as a combustion chamber, placed in the middle of the barrel,
was not so much a combustion chamber, but was put in because Webb was scared
of the length of the tubes. The boiler was longer than any other which had
been put on an engine at that date, and he was afraid that trouble might
happen owing to the tubes being too long. Since then, of course, very much
longer tubes have been used. "In what the Author calls the combustion chamber
Mr. Webb placed, if I remember rightly, a soot blower, so that the tubes
could be easily and quickly cleaned. An ash hopper was also provided."
Mr. W. A. Stanier: (pp726-8) stated that
he had enjoyed very much the analysis which the Author has made of our boiler
problem; it has been, he thought, more complete than most of the analyses
seen. As he has indicated, he has perhaps not given due weight to the firebox
volume, but he has gone a long way towards endeavouring to evaluate the various
bailer propartions which have been used on the engines of comparatively recent
times.
It may be of some interest if I give an indication af the free areas
in use on the present L.M.S. engines. As you know, Dr. Wagner indicated the
importance of getting in balance the areas through the small tubes and the
areas through the large flue tubes. On the Pacific" Coronation" engine the
area through the small tubes is 3.23 sq. ft. and through the large tubes
3.66 sq. ft., making a total of 6.89 sq., ft. On the "5X" 3-cylinder engines
the figures are 2.22 sq. ft. and 2.52 sq. ft., making a total of 4.74 sq.
ft. You will remember that in his Paper (253)
Dr. Wagner gave particulars of a boiler which had a free area through
the tubes of something like 8 sq. ft. The comment of a member of my staff
was that that engine would burn brickbats! The difficulty
is, of course, to obtain the free areas which you want and to maintain a
balance with the grate area and the firebox volume within the load gauge
from which we suffer in England.
In connection with the "5X" engines, it may interest yau to know that
the L.M.S. have recently carried out some accelerated train trials between
Glasgow and Leeds and Leeds and Bristol with "5X" engines. With a train weighing
300 tons, the coal consumption on that engine to do the work varied from
40 lb. per sq. ft. af grate area per hour to 100 lb. per sq. ft. of grate
area per hour, which I think indicates what an extraordinarily flexible
steamraiser a locomotive boiler is. I do not advocate an engine being used
to burn l00 lb. per sq. ft. of grate area per hour; I think that if we did
that with some of the bigger engines we should have to put in a mechanical
stoker.
The Author has referred to smokebox vacuum. It may be of interest
to mention that the vacuum in the smokebox of the L.M.S. turbine locomotive
with one nozzle open is just over 1 in. of water, and with two nozzles it
is 2 in., so that with the maximum number of nozzles open it is 6 in.
The engine steams quite well on the fast trains between Liverpool
and Euston of something like 500 tons weight. It seems to me that that is
a comparatively low vacuum in the smokebox for a big boiler, when account
is taken of the vacuum which the French engines are obtaining with the Kylchap
blast pipe, and one of the investigations which I think that every locomotive
superintendent within my memory has carried out is an investigation to endeavour
to improve the vacuum in the smakebax withaut increasing, and in fact decreasing,
the back pressure in the cylinders.
When I was in the drawing office, there was a drawer full of experiments
which had been carried out in connection with blast pipes and smokebox
arrangements, and I am sure that in the. drawing office which I now control
there are similar quantities af experiments, but I do not think that even
yet we have determined what is the most efficient arrangement.
The Author has referred to sinuous tubes. One af the difficulties
in a locomotive is to keep the tubes clean, and there are quite enough
difficulties at present in keeping a flue tube with a superheater element
in it clean af smokebox ash and soot. The old dodge af the driver of putting
a little sand on a shovel and putting it in the firehole door to scour the
tubes has been developed an the L.M.S. and some other railways by introducing
sand guns for this purpose.
E.S. Cox: (736-7) referred to the Midland compounds
and postulated that if you look after the capacity of the barrel portion
of the boiler the rest of the boiler will look after itself. Now, the Midland
compound is a rather interesting example of quite the opposite school of
thought. 'This engine was designed at a time when special steels were not
available and when very severe restrictions were placed on the weight which
was allowed to run over the track; and, being desirous of obtaining the greatest
possible boiler power in that engine, the designer fitted a very large firebox
to a very small barrel. The barrel was only about 4ft. 7in. diameter at the
front end, and the tubes only 12ft. 3in. long, but the grate area was 29
sq. ft., very nearly the equal of that carried by many 4-6-0 engines to-day.
From the steaming point of view that engine has always been very successful,
and I think that that goes to show how difficult it is to arrive at any set
of formulae which can adequately portray all the variations of which locomotive
boiler design is capable. The Author could hardly hope to put into his Paper
many direct comparisons between different locomotive types without drawing
a little fire from his audience, and, still on the question of the Midland
compounds, I have to join issue with him when he says that these engines
"are extremely economical in coal and water and not extravagant in other
running costs, but they undoubtedly have limitations in load capacity which
must make them less valuable to the traffic department than other locomotives
of lower thermal efficiency" Actually, I think it can be demonstrated that
the contrary is true. Many members here must be familiar with their behaviour
in Scotland, where until quite recently they have been hauling trains of
400 tons in weight, and I myself have been behind one up the Shap incline
with a 350-ton train load when the five miles were run in 8½ minutes,
as against a booked time of 11 minutes, certainly without any fireworks or
the engine blowing itself to pieces. On the other hand, as regards economy,
while the economy of these engines was marked in the days when all contemporary
engines had only a very short valve travel and a short lap, I think figures
have already been published in the Press which indicate that the Midland
compounds cannot show the economy of present-day simple machines with modern
valve events.
With regard to the Author's praise of the locomotive boiler generally, we
can only agree with his admiration, but I think he has been a little carried
away by his enthusiasm and is perhaps a little too satisfied. Sometimes when
we see the work which has to be done in the sheds and see these Stephenson
boilers undergoing repairs in the shops we have a little qualm of conscience
that all is not quite as well as it might be, and we feel that new forms
of boiler will keep obtruding themselves on our notice until it may be that
some day the Stephenson locomotive type will be superseded, certainly to
the extent of getting rid of the fat surfaces and the boiler stays, which
give us so much trouble.
Finally, I should like to refer to the Author's assumption of a temperature
in the firebox of 2,500°F., presumably at the point where the gases
are entering the flue tubes. From all the test data which I have seen, I
think this figure is more representative of the temperature in the fire itself,
say just above the actual surface of the firebed ; and, if that temperature
actually obtained at the entry to the tubes, the firebox would hardly be
absorbing any of the heat generated. Tests at Illinois and Altoona show that
the temperature of entry to the tubes is more in the region of 1,700°
to 1,900°, and this, of course, will have some influence, even if possibly
only a slight influence, on the figures which the Author has given.
K. Cantlie (pp. 738-42) submitted a graph (Figure
9) which compared the boiler performance at speeds from 0 to 70 mile/h of
the following locomotives: "his" 4-8-4 for the Chinese National Railways;
the Lord Nelson type with new boiler; and same type with original boiler;
the enlarged Claughton/Patriot boiler; the original Claughton boiler; George
V; Precursor, Teutonic; Greater Britain and Jumbo (comparitive performance
was in descending order as listed).
J.G.R. Sams (744-5): Very sorry to read author's
rather unkind remarks about compounds, because, having had a great deal to
do with ships, he was still unrepentantly of the belief that the compound
locomotive would come, and would suggest a high pressure compound engine,
with a pressure of 300 to 350 psi, with forced draught, and perhaps heated
forced draught. In that connection, he believed that the GER. tried a forced
heated draught with some of their oil-burning engines. They had some sort
of serpentine in the smokebox and led the air in through a mouthpiece just
under the smokebox door, but the serpentine burned away fairly quickly ;
but in these days of special steels we might be able to have something of
the sort, and think that the forced draught would do away with the variations
of blast and vacuum in the smokebox; in fact, we would have no vacuum in
the smokebox, and that might work better than the existing system. With regard
to feed-heating, he considered a short boiler gives room for feed-heating
as well as heating the draught, and that is a point which might be considered.
I hope, however, that we shall never go in for sinuous tubes, because with
the long runs which are common nowadays-and I hnve had to do with runs of
24 hours without there being time to clean the tubes-it i s hard enough to
keep a straight tube clean, and if we go in for sinuous tubes these long
runs might be impossible owing to the tubes choking up. I think we shall
have to keep to straight tubes, or at any rate to fairly straight tubes.
I should like to make a remark about the ephemeral improvements to which
the Author refers. At Crewe, where I served my apprenticeship, I believe
Mr. Webb tried four different variations. Thcre was a figure eight firebox
and a wet-bottom firebox, both having water underneath the fire, and a
characteristic of both was that, owing to the lack of circulation, it was
quite possible in cold weather to have icicles underneath, although the boiler
was in full steam; I have seen them. 'Then on one of his 6-coupled coal engines
he tried brick sides, but the bricks rattled down, and it finished up as
a stationary boiler in the brickyard opposite No. 8 erecting shop. In addition
to that, there were some coal engines built with a circular Lancashire tube
firebox. Why they failed I do not know. I believe the L. & Y.R. also
had some of them. They do not seem to have prospered, and, as the author
says, the original Stephenson design has always pulled through.
E.A. Langridge:(747-8) The Author is to be congratulated
for the immense amount of work he has put in in “grinding out”
so many of Lawford Fry’s formulae, which is a tribute to his thoroughness.
Lawford Fry’s theories on heat transfer and gas flow do not appear,
usually, to have had the attention they deserve, for in many cases, at any
rate, the smokebox temperatures given by these formulae approximate very
nearly to that obtained in practice, at the mouth of the particular tube
calculated for. Since the publication of Dr. Eale’s paper on Gas Analysis
Tests, more reliable data is available than hitherto in the way of firebox
temperatures and vacua, making less assumptions necessary to work out Lawford
Fry’s formulae.
A weak point in the Author’s Paper seems to me the conclusions drawn
from figures which bring into account engine performance as well as the boiler
performance of the locomotive; it is an old observation that the boiler knows
to what engine it is fitted. Mr. Cox has dealt with the Author’s
observations on the Midland compounds. I would point out also that the same
boiler as fitted to the cornpounds was also used ofi Mr. Deeley’s now
defunct 990 class, two-cylinder simple 4-4-0’s which were, I believe,
good steamers and bad economisers ; comparable with the L.N.W. 4-4-0’s.
The Author makes a good point on page 716 concerning effective gas area.
Pushed to its conclusion it means that the ratios of free area of the tubes
to grate area of various boilers are not comparable unless the mean hydraulic
depths, or the A/s. ratios, are the same. As this is generally accepted to
be best at 1/400, or tube bore to length 1/100, one has fairly reliable data
on which to base those proportions, but a consideration of the above, points
to the fact that tube resistance is the thing that matters. If this 1/400
ratio is not worked to it is an easy matter to push up the nominal free area
to a figure not representative of its true value. D. Drumrnond tried a boiler
—at any rate I have seen a drawing of it—in which he employed one
single large flue, instead of tubes, within an ordinary standard locomotive
boiler, which had two large nests of crosswater tubes at approximate right
angles to each other, across the large flue—in a similar manner to his
famous arrangement in the firebox. One might say that the A/s value predicted
failure here. Possibly the L.N.E.R. 10,000 suffered from the same defect.
Likewise the two “Claughton” boilers, mentioned on page 705, may
not necessarily be different in performanre merely because of the tube sizes.
When history comes to be written, it is hardly likely that the boiler proportions
will be connected with the swift demise of these engines. Again, it should
be remembered that the published sizes of tubes for Mr. Stanier’s 5X
boilers is 17/8in. dia. by 13ft. 3in. long, which rather challenges the
Author’s conclusions. I think firebox volume is important and, as advocated
by Mr. Rowland, the firebox should be, ideally, cubical so as to give the
max. volume for surfare necessary. Thus a boiler like the L.M.S. “
Coronation ” is pretty well ideal, the sloping sides being necessary
for cab window look-out, the Belpaire top helping to maintain the cubical
shape as far as possible. The ditference in firebox volume probably accounts
for the difference in performance of many early 4-6-0s, with shallow boxes,
and corresponding 4-4-0s with deep boxes as, for instance, the L.S.W.R. T14
and D15 classes.
I woiild like to suggest that the Author adds a bibliography to the end of
his valuable Paper, including the series of articles in the Railway
Engineer of about 1918, Mr. Lawford Fry’s article in
Engineering of 1921, and Mr. Poultney’s paper to the World Power
Conference of 1923, which latter contains a further bibliography also; and
also Mr. Rowland’s paper on superheating in
our Proceedings of some years ago. The latter has much interesting matter
on tube resistance.
Meeting in Montevideo, Uraguay, 9 and 10 April, 1937. 764
The First Quarterly Meeting of the South American Centre was held
in Montevideo on Friday and Saturday, the 9 and 10 1937. By kind permission
of the Management of the Uruguay State Railways, a trip was made in one of
their Brill railcars from Montevideo to the town of La Paloma on the coast
of Uruguay. The distance, with the exception of two stops, was covered in
3 hours 50 minutes. The Members of the Institution were the guests of the
Management of the Uruguay State Railways. The return journey was made the
same afternoon to the Central Station in Montevideo, which was reached at
7.50 p.m.
On 10 April a Meeting was held, by kind permission of the Management of the
Central Uruguay Railway, at the Peñarol workshops, when Paper No.
362, entitled “ The Most Suitable Passenger Locomotive for Intensive
Use and for Long Engine Runs,” presented before the Institution by Mr.
H. P. Renwick at Bombay on 28 July 1934, and published in Journal No. 134,
November-December, 1936, was discussed.
Critchley, R.P. (Paper No. 379)
Mechanical coaling plants. 780-808. Disc.: 808-13.
Fourth General Meeting of the Scottish Centre, Session 1936-37, was
held in the Society’s Room of the Royal Technical, Glasgow, on Thursday,
21 January 1937, at 7.30 p.m. Mr. G.A. Musgrave in the Chair
Based on overall British practice, with some emphasis on early LNWR and LMS
installations at Crewe (North and South) and Springs Branch and LNER
installations at Doncaster, Kittybrewster (Aberdeen) and at Eastfield and
Kipps in Glasgow. The small palt at Hitchin is also described. The Southern
Railway plant at Nine Elms is described...