Journal of the Institution of Locomotive Engineers

Volume 20 (1930)

Back to main file

Journal No. 93

Wagner, R.P. (Paper No. 253)
Some new developments of the Stephenson boiler. 5-21. Disc.: 21-47.
Contributors to the discussion included Bazin (who chaired the meeting, 21-2); Maunsell (22-4): "I have endeavoured to make a comparison between the ratios which Herr Wagner has recommended and those which have been adopted in the most recent engines I have built for the Southern Railway. Although the ratios are not quite what Herr Wagner advocated, 1: 400, I can only say that the engines steam well, they are reasonably economical in fuel, and the back pressure is low, but not so extraordinarily low as the figures obtained by Herr Wagner in the engines which he has recently designed. Perhaps the results I have obtained might prove, to a certain extent, the truth of the old saying, that there are more ways of killing a dog than by choking him with butter! There is, however, one point which has an important bearing on the velocity of gases through the boiler flues and back pressure, namely, the diameter of the exhaust pipe. I sould be glad if Herr Wagner would be good enough to tell us how that is considered, when calculating the areas of the ordinary smoke and superheater flues? We have also found from practice that the relationship between the position of the blast pipe nozzle and the horizontal central line of the tube plate, measured both longitudinally and vertically, has a very distinct bearing on the uniformity of the flow of gases through the tubes; and I would value Herr Wagner's opinion on that point also.
In the earlier part of his Paper Herr Wagner referred to steel and copper fireboxes. I can only say that steel fireboxes have not proved a success so far as I know in England, when applied to engines designed for main line service. There have been several cases of small shunting engines with steel fireboxes which. have given satisfactory results, but not with engines designed for main line serdce. I do not believe that the failure is due to the poor quality or the unsuitability of the material which is used. Some years ago I imported from America a number of steel firebox plates, and the results obtained with these were no better than the results obtained from plates made to a similar specification, but manufactured in England. My opinion is that the failure was due to the fact that the fireboxes of British engines are relatively small compared with American engines, due to weight and clearance restrictions, and the rate of combustion per square foot per grate area is relatively high; and, in addition to its higher conductivity, a copper firebox will stand up better to high temperatures and severe conditions of service than a steel firebox. I remember, when going through the Baldwin Locomotive Works, discussing the question of the steel and copper firebox with Mr. Sam Vauclain, the President, and asking him if he ever fitted locomotives with copper fire boxes? Mr. Vauclain said, as far as he could remember that the only boilers to which he had fitted copper fireboxe were those which were intended for use in Cuba and, he added, with a twinkle in his eye, that he thought probably the reason for doing so was the very low mentality of th natives who would have to operate the engines in that island! I did not think that remark was exactly a flattering one to European engineers. We shall certainly watch with interest the performanc, of the corrugated box, which Herr Wagner has illustrated though I am not quite sure how that is going to get himout of the trouble experienced with tube plates. The corrugation of the side and crown plates may possibly hell him with regard to expansion; out I do not see how he is going to be relieved of the tube plate trouble.
Sir Henry Fowler (24-5): I agree with Mr. Maunsell that the Paper we have heard requires a great deal of discussion and also a great deal of thought. To begin with, in the first part of the Paper reference is made to the question of a corrugated firebox, and no doubt the Author will remember that the Jacob box of the Santa Fé Railroad of America was on the same principle, but for various reasons it has been abandoned. In the box with which Mr Wagner is experimenting, I am rather doubtful whether trouble may not be experienced owing to the "breathing' which must take place in the corrugations. Something will probably also depend upon the class of water used, and I think difficulties may arise with water which gives a hard china-like scale which might crack along the corrugation and lead to subsequent corrosion.
With regard to the interesting proposal of increasing the number of superheater elements in the smoke tubes, I would point out that one railway in England has adopted for many years elements comprised of six small tubes in each superheater flue tube as against the normal arrangement. On the old Midland Railway, we have tested an engine so fitted, but it did not meet with the success we had hoped.
Coming to the main point of the Paper, which refers to the proportions of the tubes, one can compare the suggestion of Mr. Wagner of area of free space to area of surface of tube with that of Mr. Lawford Fry, who has, as is well known, done such a great work on the proportions of the ordinary boiler tubes, and who advocates that the ratio between the diameter of a tube and its length should not exceed 1 to 100, and it is interesting to note that in the case of a plain boiler tube, if the ratio A /S is 1 /400, as recommended by Mr. Wagner, this is identical with Mr. Lawford Fry's proposed maximum ratio mentioned above.
I would like to know how the figures on Fig. 9 were obtained, because they are of very considerable interest. It is also interesting to see the efficiencies which Mr. \Vagner has given, for after all, one's own children are always much better looking than anyone else's, and I would like to say that on my Company's "Royal Scot" engine, on a run in which we reached l,300 drawbar h.p. and an average speed of about 52 miles, the average boiler thermal efficiency is found to be 80½ per cent.
I have made a tabulated list of boiler proportions which are looked upon as fairly satisfactory and efficient. The manufacturing question comes in with regard to the first three, because they have the same tube plate. We look upon the first boiler; G.7, as probably being the best proportioned one, and it will be seen that the ratios for it vary considerably from those according to Mr. Wagner's proportions.

TUBE RATIOS—L.M.S. ENGINES.

I have also taken the ratio of internal diameter to length for one of the boilers guoted by Mr. Wagner and I find that this ratio is 1 to 112, somewhat in excess of Mr. Lawford Fry's maximum. I would, however, say that I am not at all in favour of tubes 22 feet in length and of the diameter given.
Mr. E. A. Robinson (25-8): The Paper is one of exceptional interest to us all, coming as it does from so well-known an engineer as Mr.  Wagner. I am particularly interested in his remarks regarding the size of boiler tubes and flue tubes for varying lengths of boilers. Generally speaking, in the interests af standardisatian, it has not been found possible to vary the size af those tubes and flues in accordance with what might be the most economical size from the point of view of evaporatian.
In many of the early superheated boilers, having superheaters originally designed by the Schmidt Superheating Company, 51/8in. external diameter flues were used with 1½in. elements. The small size flue tube found on the early boilers, which were generally short in the barrel, had in many cases been carried out, I regret to say, all the most modern boilers. A 1½in. element in a 51/8in. flue occupies 29 per cent. of the area. A 13/8in. element in a 5¼in. flue occupies 21 per cent., and a 1½in. element in 5½in. flue occupies 24 per cent. It will be observed that the small flue tube with the larger element tubing gives a small net gas area and is liable to become choked.
With regard to. Mr. Wagner's statement that when he increased the number af flue tubes fram 34 to 35 and increased their diameter fram 47/8in. to. 55/16in. as against a similar boiler where he increased the number of flue tubes from 34 to 41, but retained the same size, I should have expected that the reason a higher superheat was obtained from the former arrangement was due to the fact that the design had the net gas area through the superheater increased by 19 per cent. over the original design, due the increased diameter flues and 4 per cent. due to one extra flue, making a total of 23 per cent. greater in the gas area; whereas in the other boiler the net gas area was only increased by 20 per cent; in other words, the boiler giving the higher superheat with a smaller superheating surface had a greater net gas area through the superheater.
Mr. Lawford Fry, in his well-known book, " The Study of the Locomotive Boiler," has dealt with the sizes of boiler tubes and flue tubes from the aspect of the mean hydraulic depth. The mean hydraulic depth is the sectional area of the tube divided by the gas-swept perimeter, but does not take into account the length af the tube, as does the ratio A/S given by Mr. Wagner. Mr. Lawford Fry states that "a decrease in the mean hydraulic depth, other conditions remaining the same, will produce a considerable increase in the amount of heat taken up from the gases, and consequently a decrease in the smokebox temperatures."  I think that is why Mr. Wagner obtained a higher superheat in his experimental boiler fitted with flue tubes having a diameter of 63/8in. with six superheater tubes contained therein, having an inside diameter of 29/32in.
R.H. Whitelegg (28-9); W.A. Lelean (29); H. Chambers (29-30); J. Clayton (30-2); D.W. Sanford (32-3); H. Holcroft (33-4): (Leeds 40-7): D.W. Harvey (41); E.W. Selby (41-3); C.F. Adams (43); A. Hird (43-4); E.A. Newsum (44); S.J. Lucas (44-5).

Shields, T.H. (Paper No. 254)
Locomotive regulator valves. 49-103. Disc.: 103-24; 197-203; 717-19.
For many years it had been standard practice for steam generated in the boiler of a locomotive enters the main steam pipe on its way to the cylinders, through the regulator valve. This valve is generally situated in the dome on the boiler barrel, and regulates steam supply to the cylinders by throttling. The regulator valve is controlled by the regulator rod passing back from the dome through the boiler and above the inner firebox to the regulator lever placed on the boiler back plate. A stuffing box is fitted on the boiler back plate which carries the end of the regulator rod, and prevents any leakage of steam through the boiler back plate. The front end of the regulator rod is carried by a projection at the foot of the vertical steam pipe in the dome. Close to this front end of the regulatot rod is either a crank, or eccentric, which operates the regulator valve through the medium of a connecting link.

Ordinary plug cocks were first used as regulator valves: Hedley's Puffing Billy, Foster Rastrick's Agenoria, and Stephenson's Rocket, all in South Kensington Museum, show regulator valves of this type. Samuel's locomotive of 1847 had another form of plug cock regulator for its vertical boiler. Plug regulator valves were abandoned chiefly owing to their frequent sticking.

Stephenson's Locomotion No.1 has a flat regulator valve on each of its two steam chests, controlled by one regulator lever. The driver's handle is connected to a spindle on the top of the boiler barrel, this spindle passing through a stuffing box to the inside of the boiler, where it is attached to a double crank; from this crank a rod is connected to each end, leading to a flat valve on the bottom of each steam chest. Stephenson, later, built a few locomotives with the regulator in the form of a slide valve covering a port on the top of the cylinder steam chest. Daniel Gooch [KPJ wromg Gooch] used this form of valve on the L. & S.W. and Eastern Counties Railways. The steam chest regulator was controlled by a rod passing from the regulator through the smoke box below the boiler, and, by means of a lever parallel to the regulator handle, was brought within reach of the dnver.

In Bury's engines a conical plug regulator valve was actuated by turning a handle in front of the firebox; a spiral groove of large pitch was made on the regulator valve spindle in which fitted a pin attached to the boiler. When the spindle was turned, the steam passage to the cylinders was opened. Another form of regulator prior to 1840 was in the form of a double beat valve placed in the steam pipe leading from the dome, this valve being lifted by a tappet attached to the regulator rod, and one form of horizontal double-beat valve was operated by a double-threaded screw.

Regulators about this time (1840) were generally placed in the horizontal steam pipe, dry steam being led to the regulator from the dome and sometimes from a second dome situated along the. boiler barrel. (This practice of having two steam domes was common on theContinent up till about 1900). The regulator valve itself was usually a rotating disc which had two sector-shaped apertures covered by a butterfly valve; the valve being situated above the firebox required only a short regulator rod. An improvement on this design, credited to Sharp, Roberts & Co. is that, as in modern practice, the regulator valve is itself placed in the dome, and here we have the first instance of the now usual vertical regulator valve actuated by a lever and a vertical link; this being introduced about 1839.

The Crampton regulator valve of about 1848, consisted of an external box on the top of the boiler barrel, steam coming from an internal steam pipe which had a slit along the top. A branch from this pipe entered the box where a double slide valve acted as a regulator valve. The valve was moved by a regulator tod passing along the top of the boiler barrel on the outside. The regulator lever warked in a horizontal guide or sector in the cab. The Cramptan regulator was in favour for many years an the Continent. Shield illustrated the position af the regulator on the boiler and external steam pipe to the cylinders: a modified type of this regulator may be seen an the sectional madel of a Fairlie locomotive in the South Kensingtan Museum. In this case, the sliding type of regulator valve is placed at the bottom of the vertical steam pipe in the dome, the regtilator rod passing through a stuffing bax at the back of the dome along the top af the boiler to the cab, the internal steam pipe passing as usual to the smoke box.

Some early forms of regulator valves were situated in the smokebox. In one the body of the regulator was cylindrical, and placed concentrically with the regulator rod was a brass valve, which turned radially with the regulator. The valve, when closed, overlapped on each side of the broad post, but an the steam edge of the valve the edge was shaped as shown; therefore, when the valve opened. to steam, the steam was only admitted at the centre and the full width of part was not uncovered until the valve had moved 1/8 inch over the port, this giving gradual admission of steam to the cylinders. The valve was held to its seat by a small vertical spring.

The sliding type af regulator valve is fixed on the smokebox. tubeplate, the parts being arranged lengthwise, and the valve moving across the ports. Later types of this regulator have been fitted with a pilot valve, a modified form being in use on the G.W. Rly., where steam is conducted to the regulator by a bifurcated internal steam pipe leading from the large steam space above the firebox.

Figures represented the two most common types of regulator valves for domeless locomotives, popular from 1870 to 1890 and still fitted in a modified form in 1930. Like the previous type the regulator was placed as high as possible in the centre of the smoke box tubeplate. The internal steam pipe in some cases reached the full length af the boiler to the firebox back plate, and in other cases terminated just above the firebox tubeplate. The regulator rod, of the pull-out type, passed through the internal steam pipe. The top of the internal steam pipe was perforated with about 250 holes, or less but larger holes. Along tbe top af the pipe on each side of these perforatians two baffle strips were brazed; these were ¾ inch high and served to prevent water from entering the steam pipe through violent ebullition or rough shunting. In about 1870 on the GSWR Stirling used a form of internal steam pipe somewhat similar, but instead of the perforations eight short vertical tubes, one inch diameter, were fixed on top of the internal steam pipe immediately above the inner firebox, the steam passing through these pipes into horizontal steam pipe. Stirling's regulator gear at this time consisted of a vertical lever connected to an external regulator rod which passed along the side of the boiler the smoke box from which another rod passed into the regulator valve in the smoke box. The reverser lever and the regulator handle were both at the driver's right hand, a convenient position.

As regards the regulator valve, the two ports in the cast iron head were arranged transversely, these ports being covered by a cast iron valve with one large central port and two small ports at each end; on the back of this valve a brass pilot valve was fitted, the pilot valve being slightly longer than the main valve. In the Author's experience, this type of regulator was more costly to maintain than the ordinary double-beat variety. A frequent occrrence was their sticking when open, especially the type shown in Fig. 2. In this case the end of the rod passing through the stuffing box on the front, often corroded after a few months' service.

The Younghusband regulator valve is described on p.61 (with diagram). Presumably this Younghusband is the same one who invented a form of valve gear used briefly on the NER. The special regulators fitted to the LMS compounds were described on pp 62 and in pp. 66-7; Stroudley's regulator is described on pp. 63 and 68. Ramsbottom's regulator is described as invented on p. 64 and in its "modern form" on pages 65 and 68-9. Lockyer's patent balanced regulator valve is described on pp. 69-73, Owen's balanced double beat regulator developed by A.E. Owen (p. 73); Zara's balanced regulator (pp. 74-5) (see also Zara); the Joco combined regulator and drifting valve marketed by Wota Ltd and used on the LNER (pp. 74-80); the Buck external regulator valve invented by W.L. Buck in the USA; Chamber's front-end throttle (pp. 82-3); multiple valve regulators as marketed by MLS (pp. 83-8);and  the Servo system invented? by Percy Hulburd (88-9). The locomotive booster as introduced on the LNER required a special regulator system (pp. 94-6). Steam railcars and geared locomotives are considered on pp. 96-102. These included those from Kerr Stuart, Clayton and Sentinel.

In the discussion H. Chambers (103-4) considered that the grid-type "takes a lot of beating"; P.C. Dewhurst noted slight errors in the description of the regulator system for the LMS compounds, and prefered the pull-out type. W.A. Lelean (106-7) advocated the Owen type; defended the Lockyer design and noted that the Joco type was based on quite sound lines. E.A. Phillipson (107-8); A.E. Owen (108-11) spoke about his own design; T.G. Atkinson (111-12); H. Holcroft (112-13) considered that the travel was too short in the ordinary double-beat type and observed that regulator operation must be perfectly safe with no risk of accidental opening. F. Onions (113-15).

Glasgow Meeting (197-203): C.H. Robinson (197-9) had been an improver at Darlington when the Lockyer valve was developed. On the NER the Lockyer regulator was easy to operate, but was seldom steam-tight: leakage was serious. The regulator fitted to the Royal Scot class was easier to operate than theory might suggest. Phillips (199-201 commented on wear in the grooves of the Lockyer type. J.H. Williams (202-3: communication). On page 203 the author noted an error in his description of the Zara valve.

Journal No. 94

HIGH-PRESSURE compound locomotive, London & North Eastern Railway. 134-6. illus.

NEW 4-4-0 type locomotives, Southern Railway. 137-40. illus., diagr. (s. & f. els.)

Willans, Kyrle W. (Paper No. 255).
Water-tube boilers suitable for locomotives. 157-79. Disc.: 179-96; 411-18; 688-92 + 6 folding plates.2 illus., 22 diagrs.
Chaired by J.R. Bazin. Based mainly on Kerr Stuart experimental work on a Perkins boiler, but most of the other small water-tube boilers are mentioned: Sentinel, Clarkson thimble, Yarrow water-tube, Niclausse water-tube the Loftus Perkins tubular steam generator, the Kerr Stuart geared locomotive is shown in Fig. 15. The Kiesselbach system of steam storage was mentioned. The use of the Perkins boiler on tramway locomotives and on a proposed Fairlie articulated locomotive is also considered. Discussion: J.R. Bazin (179-80) chaired the meeting; E.P. Anderson (180); Loftus P. Perkins (180-1); W.A. Lelean (181-2); S. Hopkins (182-4) who cited Kiesselbach and Druitt Halpin steam storage systems and proposed fitment of Kiesselbach type to the tender of a Churchward 4-6-0. W. Cyril Williams (184) noted that the bulk of the boiler increased with working temperature; D.C. Brown (184-6); A.E. Owen (186); F.A. Boyes (186-7); T. Grime (187-8). On pp. 193-3 Willans described the use of the Kerr Stuart locomotive on the Lochaber Power Scheme as used by Balfour Beatty; F.A. Boyes (193-4); John Riekie (194).

Bazin, J.R. Presidential Address. 215-28.
Surveys the Rainhill Trials of 1829 and notes the lack of educational facilities available through the Institution. No information on Bazin's Irish activities. Vote of thanks given by J. Clayton pp. 225-6 and by G.A. Musgrave at Leeds (pp. 237-9) when he noted Bazin's Doncaster connection..

Journal No. 95

Gass, E.M.
Chairman's address. 262-6.

Gass, E.M. (Paper No. 256)
Undue compression in the cylinders of steam locomotives and means for combating same. 267-78. Discussion: 279-86.
J.W. Smith (279-80) noted that in 1886 the NER fitted its valves with one wide and one narrow ring. Sandford (280-1) asked what pressure should be sought. J.C. Sykes (281). S.H. Whitelegg (281-2). L.J. La Claire (282); W. Rowlands (282-3) described the non-return ball valves used on GCR which cushioned steam under stress when drifting. D.R. Carling advocated the Riekie valve gear. In his reply Gass noted that the cage and ball type had been tested against Richardson balanced slide valves on the Aspinall 4-4-2 type.

Selby, F.W. (Paper No. 257)
Compound locomotives. 287-316. Disc.: 317-24; 693-703: 1931, 21, 85-119. 6 illus., 12 diagrs., 3 tables.
History: two-cylinder compounds included those used on the NCC and the Worsdell-von Borries compounds used mainly on the North Eastern Railway; cited P.L. Falcolner's paper on the cylinder performance of cross-compound locomotives in Journal No. 81; three-cylinder compounds developed by Webb, Deeley and on the Great Central Railway; four-cylinder compounds developed by Webb, on the GNR under Ivatt, and on the NER under Wilson Worsdell, Vauclain and Mallet compounds, the Nilgiri rack locomotives, and (at length) development in France. Reasons cited for the British failure to adopt compounding included cheap coal, the quest for simplicity, the use of inadequate sized steam ports, short lap and valve travel, and the inadequate British loading gauge. A considerable part of the paper is given to the de Glehn system and observations on the performance by de Glehn compounds on the Nord section in France. Also proposed a compound Beyer Garratt. E. Alcock (317) expressed satisfaction with LMS compounnds. G.M. Pargiter (317-19) introduced implied criticism of LNER No. 10000: it has been fitted with almost every device which exists with the exception of wings and a propeller. E.A. Newsum (319); D.W, Harvey mentioned the Vauclain compounds; S.J. Lucas (319-21) noted his experience with the Worsdell two-cylinder compounds on the GER and the good balance and even torque provided by the NER three-cylinder compounds. J.M.. Doherty (321); A. Hird (321-2); J.R. Thackeray (322) had experience of Worrsdell locomotives fitted with Joy valve gear on NER and found them to be heavy on maitenance. . The discussion in Volume 31 contains corriegenda and addenda, especially further information on the de Glehn system. A.C. Carr (91-5) noted the application of the de Glehn system in India and J. Clayton made a comment on p. 95..

Gresham, J.N. (Paper No. 258)
Live steam injector practice. 336-8. Disc.: 358-65.
Contributors to discussion: E.W. Selby (342); T.H. Sanders (340) and L.W.R. Robinson (344)

Grime, T. (Paper No. 259)
The development of the geared steam locomotive. 347-77. Disc.: 377-410.
Bazin (377-8) noted Gresley's and Fowler's work on high pressure locomotives; D.W. Sanford (378-81) noted the effect of hammer blow and the Bridge Stress Committee; P.C. Dewhurst (381-3); W.A. Lelean (384) commented on hammer blow; J.W. Beaumont (384-5); H. Kelway-Bamber (385-6); K.W. Willans (386-7) difficulties experienced with Webb compounds starting away from Rugby station; F.W. Hobson (387-9); E. Graham (389-90); J.D. Twinberrow (390-3) data relating to Schmidt high pressure locomotive in Germany citing coal consumption of 2.002 lb/hp/hour; A.H. Whitaker (393); S.J. Lucas (404-6) refered to both LNER and LMS high pressure locomotives; E.W. Selby (407-8) commented on water tubes; P.W. Bollen (413) asked a question about brick arches.

Fowler, Henry (Paper No. 260)
Some notes on the production of iron and steel details for carriage and wagon manufacture. 420-34. Disc.: 434-48.
Sir Henry Fowler (444) NPL work on spring plates for motor cars (automobiiles)

Journal No. 96

Summer Meeting in Switzerland. 460-99 including

Huber-Stockar
The state of railway electrification in Switzerland.

Ridge, Charles W. (Paper No. 261)
The testing of steel for railway purposes. 556-84. Disc.: 584-616.

Harvey, W.H.T. (Paper No. 262)
Extended locomotive runs. 617-53. Disc. 653-76.
In Argentina

Journal No. 97

Kelway-Bamber, H. (Presidential Addtress)
Activities and progress of the Institution and reference to modern locomotive practices.

Poultney, E.C.
Poppet valves as applied to locomotives. 704-6. Disc.: 706-15. (Abstract of a lecture).
The lecture was associated with a visit to inspect D49 locomotives (with Lentz OC and RC valve gear) and a Sentinel shunter at Neville Hill Depot, Leeds

Kitson Clark, E. (Paper No. 263)
The diesel-steam locomotive: Kitson-Still type. 728-78. Disc.: 779-86 + 7 folding plates. 10 illus., 17 diagrs. (incl. s. el.). Bibliog.
This is the primary source as it includes an exhaustive analysis of the design, plus details of the test runs.

Gysel, E. (Paper No. 264)
Mechanical gears used in the construction of electric locomotives. 789-848.

Journal No. 98

Clayton, T. (Paper No. 265)
Systems of paying for work. 852-79. Disc.: 879-87.
In Argentina

Dewhurst, P.C. (Paper No. 266)
Some practical considerations in locomotive design for Overseas service. 888-906. Disc.: 907-17.

Humphries, J. (Paper No. 267)
Locomotive valves. 923-8. Disc.: 928-30.
Presented in India

Beckwith, H.G. (Paper No. 268)
Locomotive repairs on the Buenos Aires and Pacific Railway. 934-1027. Disc.: 1028-62.

Dendy-Marshall, C.F. (Paper No. 269)
The Rainhill Locomotive Trials of 1829. 1063-93. Disc.: 1093-4; 1096-1106.

.