Robert Urie, his son & possible other
relative
also Jock Finlayson
Robert Wallace Urie
Marshall notes that Robert Urie was born at Ardeer (Ayrshire) 22 October 1854 and died in Largs on 6 January 1937. He was the last CME of the LSWR. He was educated at Glasgow High School and in 1869 began a six year apprenticeship at Gauldie, Marshall & Co; Dubs & Co, and William King & Co. He then worked as a draughtsman at various locomotive builders until joining the Caledonian Railway as draughtsman under D. Drummond . In 1890 he became chief draughtsman at St Rollox Works and in 1896 Works Manager.
In 1897 he moved with Drummond to the LSWR as works manager at Nine Elms. In 1909 he transferred to the new works at Eastleigh. In January 1913 he succeeded Drummond as CME, but was 58 when appointed, holding the post until the LSWR was absorbed into the SR when he retired. During WWl he served on a committee of locomotive engineers to design standard locomotives. He also organized Eastleigh works to manufacture munitions. His locomotive designs were simple and robust, all with two outside cylinders. There were three classes of 4-6-0, one of which formed the pattern for the King Arthur class; a 4-8-0T and 4-6-2T. He rebuilt the Drummond 'paddlebox' 4-6-0 into a better machine.and designed the 'Eastleigh' superheater (patent for which has not been traced). Nock notes that the Urie 4-6-0s were notable for their very high hammer blow, but that the outside cylinder 4-6-0s with their sloping firegrates and superheated boilers form an "oustanding" contribution to British locomotive history. MIME 1898.
Forge (Rly Wld, 44, 580) noted that Urie has been described as having a phenomenal memory, especially for details. Many people were to find this inconvenient, and he was instant in making decisions and, having once made them, as immovable as the Rock of Gibraltar when it came to any suggestion of alteration. It is said that it took ages for the design staff to persuade Urie to allow them to add even the smallest rim to the stovepipe chimney of'N15' 4-6-0 No 736 to mitigate its awful severity. In addition, Urie had a pair of steely eyes. In the words of one of his staff, they looked right through you, came out the other side and then returned for another pass!
One illuminating story has come down to us. It was Urie's custom when he came down to the Works to walk through the shops, speaking to no one and apparently seeing nothing. At the end of his tour he would take his stand in a convenient spot. Messengers would go flying to all parts to summon before Urie foremen in whose shops he had found something amiss.
With the errant foremen lined up in front of him, he would start off. I am assured that as the first delinquent was dismissed, shaking in every limb, the next in line would be seen to begin shaking and starting to sweat.
The physical presence of Drummond might have left Eastleigh Works for ever, but something of his spirit evidently lingered. In these enlightened days, it seems almost incredible to think that grown men, and skilled craftsmen at that, could be so dominated by two such men. An interesting thought is whether Drummond or Urie would have been able to subdue a really militant shop steward of our own generation.
So it is that Robert Urie fails to approach the standard of Drummond as a source of legend. As I have said, they were quite different characters. Urie remained as CME until retirement at Grouping. It is significant that, during the 15 or so years that I [i.e. Forge] spent at Eastleigh, the men in the Works nearly always referred to Drummond as 'The Old Man', but his successor was never referred to as anything other than 'Urie'.
Patents
10,782 Applied 1 May 1914, Accepted 3 September 1914. Improvements in steam superheaters.
10,701 Applied 1 May 1914, Accepted 13 August 1914. Improvements in means of connecting pipes or conduits.
Obituaries:
Proc Instn Mech Eng, 1937, 135, 565;
Loco. Rly Carr. Wagon Rev., 1937, 43, 53.
The LATE Mr. Urie and his engines. Rly Gaz., 1937, 66, 89.
(port.)
[OBITUARY-R.W. Urie]. Rly Gaz., 1937, 66,115. illus.
(port.)
Other material about
Lake, C.S. Some CMEs I have known: VII: R.W. Urie. Rly Mag.,
1943, 89, 213-19. 15 illus. (incl. 4 ports.).
[RETIREMENT of R.W. Urie]. Rly Engr, 1923, 44,
321.
Portrait: O.S. Nock The
Southern King Arthur family. 1976
.
Atkins notes that due to the sudden ill-health of Cummings as Chief Mechanical Engineer on the Highland Railway Urie was recruited from the Midland Great Western Railway in Ireland. Soon after his arrival and upon making his first tour of inspection Urie was astonished to find all four of the 1919 'Clans' deliberately concealed in the dark recesses of Aviemore carriage shed, stored unserviceable with burnt fireboxes. These were promptly despatched to Lochgorm for overhaul and repainting. The offending steel fireboxes were probably replaced then also, although those in Nos 77 and 78 enjoyed a life of eight or nine years.
Urie found much evidence of slack discipline in the Locomotive Department after the rigours of the war. Of small stature, he was not a man to court popularity. In 1923 he instituted through working of the 'Large Ben' 4-4-0s between Inverness and Wick, and of the 'Clans' between Inverness and Glasgow (Buchanan Street). These workings did not persist for very long but they attracted particular venom from the footplate fraternity as they were lodging turns requiring the crews to spend nights away from home. Urie was once unwittingly referred to in the hearing of his own brother as an 'Irish blackguard', which would have been a much stronger sentiment then than now. (Although a Scot, Urie had come to Lochgorm from the Midland Great Western Railway).
Son of Robert Wallace (above): Rutherford (Backtrack 16 515) notes that he was a "thorn in Stanier's side", especially during the time when the Jubilee class had serious steaming problems. Cox (Locomotive panorama, Vol. 1 p. 101) stated that "whereas Anderson used to chastise our department with whips, Urie was apt to chastise it with scorpions". Bulleid (Master builders p. 146) stated that Urie forbade th Jubilee class from the Birmingham to Euston two-hour expresses. Urie also vetoed the development of a small 4-6-0 for use on the more lightly constructed routes in the Highlands.
Marshall: Born in Glasgow in 1850 and died at Bishopbriggs on 9 December 1917. He was Works Manager St Rollox, Caledonian Railway. He was eduacated at St Enoch's School and Training College and served a six year apprenticeship in the Hyde Park Locomotive Works and Glasgow Locomotive Works. From 1870 he worked in the Fairfield Works of John Elder & Co; Bowershall Works, Leith; Palmers Works, Jarrow; and Beyer Peacock, Manchester. He then went to the Belgian Locomotive Works in Brussels, as draughtsman, and Gouin's Locomotive Works in Paris, returning to Brussels as draughtsman. For 8 years from 1875 he was draughtsman of the NBR works at Cowlairs, and afterwards occupied a senior position in the CR works. From 1883-7 he was engineer and manager of the Steam Tramway Co, Singapore, Returning to Glasgow he served as assistant to John Strain. In 1889 he went as draughtsman, then chief draughtsman, at the Caledonian's St Rollox works. Later he became works manager and close personal friend of J.F. McIntosh and retired at about the same time as McIntosh, in 1914. MIME 1899.
Obituary: Engg 1917, 104, 626.
Finlayson, Thomas S. [Jock]
Finlayson was recruited from the NBL to be Chief Draughtsman to Urie
at Eastleigh and continued to be influential after Maunsell became Group
CME as is evidenced from Holcroft's Locomotive Adventure.
'Jock' was known to express the private opinion that the 'King Arthur'
engines were no better than the Urie N15 class and that the enthusiasm for
the 'K.A.' was pure propaganda. This sort of attitude seemed to be general,
for, while Brighton and Lancing Works accepted the situation, Eastleigh was
not at all pleased about the 'overlordship' and the visits of 'brass hats'
from Waterloo. Surrey Warner came up in high dudgeon to tackle Maunsell about
our activities and to complain that they were carried out without his personal
knowledge. To placate him, Maunsell took the blame on himself and said that
he had despatched us on our missions at short notice, but in future the formality
of giving notice of each intended visit and the nature of the inquiry would
be made beforehand and our arrival on the premises made known. The observance
of these formalities wasted a lot of time, for by walking down the line from
the station and going straight into the Works it had been possible to catch
an earlier train back to London.
Contributions to discussion
Kelway-Bamber paper J.Instn Loco
Engrs., 1926, 16, 1027: contributed to the
discussion with some rather sharp remarks which noted the importance of firebox
volume and noted that superheating increased the volume of the steam.
He considered that locomotive horsepower corresponded to 50 times the grate
area and therefore expected 2000 hp from the A1, 1650 from the Lord Nelson
and a mere 1500 hp from the Castle
Atkins (Rly Wld, 46, 300) considers how Finlayson may have been indirectly involved in the ill-fated HR River class.
Forge, Eric E. Eastleigh and locomotive design – 1. 342-7.
Page 340 group portrait which includes Surrey Warner, Robert Urie's son Jock
and Finlayson examining an H15
Updated: 2006-11-24