Francis [Frank] William Webb: locomotive engineer of great genius

Francis [Frank] William Webb

Hamilton Ellis "cartoon" from The splendour of steam
of Coptic: a Webb compound

Please note this page will be greatly enhanced once KPJ completes reading Chacksfield's F.W. Webb: in the right place at the right time and has sorted out Webb's presentations to the Civils and Mechanicals. In the interim KPJ will gladly provide guidance to sources: he would also like to gather together a complete list of Webb's patents.

Papers

Webb was born at Tixall Rectory (illustrated by Dunn) near Stafford on 21 May 1836 and died in Bournemouth on 4 June 1906 (Marshall). Webb, and commentaries about Webb, are extremely difficult to discuss. On the one hand there is a very considerable literature which denigrates Webb's work on compounding: on the other there is a considerable amount of evidence to show that he occupied a key position in Victorian engineering. Some extremely talented locomotive engineers, notably Aspinall, Ivatt and Gresley, were trained at Crewe under Webb. It is a plausible hypothesis to suggest that Gresley's attraction towards three-cylinder designs may owe something to Webb's three-cylinder compounds.

Chacksfield has written an excellent biography: F.W. Webb: in the right place at the right time which fully corrects the many assertins that Webb profited personally from his patenting activity. He does this by making direct reference to correspondence between the Chairman, Sir Richard Moon, and Webb which clearly establishes the limits of Webb's other sources of income: pupils and patenting. One of the most difficult sections of Chacksfield's researches to reconcile is that Frank Webb's grandfather, Henry Webb, did not marry his grandmother (Elizabeth Heath) who gave birth to ten children. As Henry's descendents tended to become pillars of the Church, one is tempted to wonder if a marriage had taken place outwith the Established Church (Quaker/Catholic?). This is introduced because Chacksfield makes it abundantly clear that the LNWR employed gentlemen..

Nock, whose work can often be faulted for its waywardness, neatly encapsulated Webb, however: "The work of Francis W. Webb during the 32 years he was Chief Mechanical Engineer will be discussed as long as there are railways." On the other hand one can question his objectivity: "Compound days on the North Western began in 1878 in a small and apparently innocuous way". The last three words are loaded: at the time the evaluation of compounding was a very sensible way of exploring great efficiency, and may have still been sensible far later in locomotive history. It is worth noting (KPJ) that Webb combined experience in the drawing office, in works management and in materials and that he was highly inventive. A litany of great engineers were his pupils, notably Aspinall, Ivatt and Gresley. Furthermore, Ahrons (Chapter 18: Compound locomotives, 1882-89) observed that "This, the first "compound era" is one of the most interesting in British locomotive history". Mallet had shown his first compound locomotive at the Paris Exhibition of 1878 and presented a paper to the Instn of Mech. Engrs. in 1879 to which Webb contributed in the discussion

Hamilton Ellis, and more recently lesser qualified individuals, notably Vaughan, and the absurd Williams, have enjoyed themselves writing rather tritely about Webb. Rutherford in Backtrack has made several attempts to restore Frank Webb's reputation firstly by discussing compounding Backtrack Vol. 9 page 582 where he observed that most Webb locomotives were not compounds. Those who would question Rutherford's use of "Frank" should note that J.M. Dunn (Rly Mag., 1961, 107, 756) uses this same familiar form. W. Noel Davies, one of Webb's last pupils, goes one better and called him "Frankie".

Cantlie, K. discussion on (page 96) Riemsdijk, J.T. van. The compound locomotive. Part 2, 1901-1921. Trans Newcomen Soc., 1970, 44, 73-98.
Cantlie indicated how nearly F.W. Webb had succeeded with his compounds on the L. & N.W.R. — a fact that was seldom conceded. It was also forgotten that in the mid-nineteenth century mechanical engineers had set up certain limits, or taboos, which were afterwards proved wrong. Among these was an accepted view that if the boiler centre was more than 7 ft. 6 in. (later 8 ft. 0 in.) above rail level, a locomotive would be top-heavy and unstable. Another such agreed limit, or shibboleth) was that coupling rods should never be longer than 7 ft. 6 in. A third such limit, which was longer-lived than the others, was that the diameter of steam pipes should be 10 per cent. of the diameter of the cylinders (This continued until it was fina1Iy broken by Chapclon). The effect of these shibboleths was on passenger locomotives with large driving-whee1s, to limit the boiler diameter, and the second limit restricted the grate area if coupled wheels were used. The third restriction caused a permanent pressure drop between boiler and cylinders.

The simple 0-6-0 classes (Coal engines and "Cauliflowers") were built in very considerable numbers and were highly standardized. Webb was a man of vision who envisaged the electrification of the LNWR mainline. It has to be remembered that for a long time Webb was forced to work within the rigid financial constraints which were set by Sir Richard Moon.. There was bound to be friction between Webb and the other chief officers of the company as he enjoyed a much higher level of remuneration than most of them. Rutherford is able to show that many of the compound locomotives were much better than the picture painted by Cox and many others: the Teutonics were "very good indeed". The performance of the Alfred the Greats was "as good as anything operating on any other British railway." Essery is equally strong in his case on behalf of Webb. Subsequently, Rutherford produced two Railway Reflections in Backtrack Volume 16 on page 635 and 695 which sought to restore Webb's reputation where he was especially critical of Hamilton Ellis's and Vaughan's ill-founded embroidery of the facts, especially those relating to the chain brake, income from patent royalties, and once again compounding. These articles show Webb's early involvement with electricity, and its application to signalling, and its potential for traction.

Perhaps the most damning evidence against Webb's compounds came from van Riemsdijk's Compound locomotives: an International survey. (1994) which noted that he had excluded the Webb three-cylinder compounds from his Newcomen Society papers because the "designs were unsatisfactory" and "had no influence on the subsequent development of the compound locomotive except probably to make it unattractive in Britain". This is extremely sharp comment from someone who is regarded as an authority. Nevertheless, van Riemsdijk was "forced" to include the Webb compounds in his book which thus required new material.

Rutherford received considerable support from Reed, whose history of the LNWR is widely recognized as being authorative, who having noted the introduction of the simple coal tanks and cauliflower classes stated: "These developments gave the LNWR an expanding stud of capable and economical six-coupled engines, allowing many older locomotives to be replaced or rebuilt. The new classes thus contributed directly to improved freight train preformance through their greater capacity and this in itself played a part in reducing costs. Reed also noted how the improvements introduced at Crewe had led to economy in construction and maintenance. The locomotive cost per train mile was generally lower in the 1880s than in the 1860s. Reed is less sympathetic about Webb's efforts in compounding and is trenchent on his final decline and forced retirement.

The largely ignored books by Griffiths also give a very different slant to Webb's genius, and it is especially important to note his observation that Webb did not inflate his salary with his income from his patents as the LNWR had free access to the devices described therein. Like many other CMEs Webb may sometimes have used his ingenuity to get round items devised elsewhere, but notes that Webb did accredit Joy's invention. Furthermore, now that a fairly comprehensive list of Ramsbottom's patents is available it is possible that the LNWR demanded a high level of patenting activity. Griffiths notes that Webb's sense of humour lasted until very late his career (1901), even if it was somewhat black in nature: "a live [electrical] rail would make the yard an exciting place for shunters to work at night". Griffiths' introductory observations make a fitting conclusion: "Unfortunately, much of the comment, since his death has been based on myth rather than fact. Ill-informed writings have given a distorted impression of the man and his works..."

Thus, although Webb is sometimes derided for his locomotive policies, both he and the LNWR had abandoned the 0-6-0 type some twenty years before certain much respected railways that built it widely had even come into existence! [Talbot Illustrated history noting the displacement of the 0-6-0 by the 0-8-0 and 4-6-0 types at the end of the nineteenth century]

Webb's papers

Working of railways. Proc. Instn Civ. Engrs, 1875, 41, 44-6.
Work of Precursor class

Standard engine shed of the London and North Western Railway Company. Proc. Instn Civ. Engrs, 1885, 80, 258-9 + plate at back of volume.
Description of steel permanent way, as used on the London and North-western Railway. Proc. Instn Civ. Engrs, 1885, 81, 299-301.
steel sleepers
On compounding locomotive engines. Proc. Instn Mech. Engrs, 1883, 34
According to Ahrons Webb had two main objectives: fuel economy and the suppression of coupling rods. Thomas Crampton contributed to the discussion.
Permanent way. Proc. Instn Civ. Engrs, 1896/97, 130, 178.
Engineering Conference, 25th May 1897, Railways: design of deep fishplates and fishplate chairs, including experiments with lead fishplates.
Particulars of various parts of recent London and North Western locomotives. Proc. Instn Civ. Engrs, 1898, 133, 302-05. Addendum.
Compound locomotives. Proc. Instn Civ. Engrs, 1899, 138, 406-11.
Both William Dean and Aspinall contributed to the discussion (406-11).
Locomotive firebox stays. Proc. Instn Civ. Engrs, 1902, 150, 87-113. Disc.: 114-46. (Paper 3346).
In a reply to the observations made upon his paper Webb on pp. 124-5 noted that copper stays on an 0-6-0 achieved 261,000 miles whilst copper zinc stays on a similar locomotive achieved 285,000 miles. Arsenic levels had to be limited. Webb noted that having been in charge of 3,000 boilers on the LNWR with 2.5 million stays "the position was not exactly a bed of roses". Ramsbottom observed the importance of keeping iron stays tight.
Copper locomotive boiler tubes. Proc. Instn Mech. Engrs, 1903/04, 401-13. (Paper 3423)
Cited earlier paper on locomotive fire-box stays. A metallurgical paper: the first tube failed when the engine had completed 34,067 miles, and the second tube of the same make at the end of 40,612 miles. Had worn thin from the inside. Mea culpa?: is this Paper one from the Civils?.

Contributions to others' Papers

Findlay, G. The working of railways. Min. Proc. Instn Civ. Engrs., 1874/75, 41, 1-18. (Paper 1419)
Lady of the Lake class; Big Bloomers; 5ft 6in four-coupled; 6ft 6in four-coupled; working of Clark brake.Webb (43-5) noted that locomotives should be worked hard.
Fox, C.D and Fox, F. The Pennsylvania Railroad; with remarks on American railway construction and management. Min. Proc. Instn Civ. Engrs, 1875, 39, 62-88. Discussion: 89-123.
Participants in the discussion included F.W. Webb, T.W. Wordsell, M. Longridge, P. Williams, W. Stanley, W.B. Lewis, J. Fernie and E.A. Cowper.

Greig, David and Eyth, Max. Experiments referring to the use of iron and steel in high-pressure boilers. Proc. Instn Mech. Engrs., 1879, 268.
Clark Steam engine p. 658-9 notes that Mr. F. W. Webb, in discussion of the paper of Messrs. Greig and Eyth, stated that after having tried various proportions of rivets and pitches, he had arrived at a single-riveted double-welt joint for 7/16-inch boiler plates of steel, possessing 71.6 per cent of the breaking strength of the whole plate, made with ¾-inch rivets at 2 inches of pitch. The covering plates are 3/8-inch thick and 5¼ inches wide, making a lap of 2 5/8 inches on each plate, and a width of 1½ inches from the centre line of the rivets to the edges of the plates. He believed this distance, 1½ inches, to be the best, and previously to the adoption of the given proportions he had found that the holes went oval long before the joint ought to have been destroyed.

Marie, George. On the consumption of fuel in compound locomotives. Proc. Instn Mech. Engrs., 1884, 35, 119-21.
According to Griffiths, Webb made a written contribution, but the spoken discussion turned towards criticism of Webb's compound locomotives from McDonnell, Ramsbottom and Aspinall.

Particulars of various parts of recent London and North Western locomotives in W.P. Marshall's Evolution of the locomotive engine. Min Proc. Instn civ. Engrs., 1897/98, 133, 241

Webb's patents [partial listing only, but probably well over half if Reed was correct]

According to Reed Webb patented more than 75 inventions from 1864 to 1903. Dunn states eighty, although some were abandoned. Many did not get beyond the drawing board and experimental stage. In his last dozen years the schemes and patent claims were drafted initially in a small locked office off the drawing office by John Scragg, a stumpy, large-nosed untidily-moustached confidential draughtsman who lasted until around 1920. This office was known as the model room, for here full-size models of Stephenson, Allan and Joy motions were set on adjustable cast-iron columns sliding over ground-steel facings; in that room were investigated the theoretical events and merits of other valve motions, including over the years 1899-1903 the Marshall and Younghusband forms, and in Whale's time the Walschaerts gear. The infamous chain brake was invented by John Clark in 1862 according to Rowatt, T. Railway brakes.Trans Newcomen Soc.,1927, 8, 19-32 .

878: 28 March 1865: Manufacture of steel tyres for railway wheels.
3332 23 December 1865: Steel crossings for railways, and in the moulds for casting the same, all or part of which said improvements in moulds are applicable for casting other articles.
888 27 March 1867: Machinery and apparatus employed in the manufacture of iron and steel by the Bessemer process.
2924 18 October 1867: Manufacture of smiths' anvils.
3545 23 November 1868: Improvements in the cosnstruction of steam hammers and in apparatus employed therein
3403 25 November 1869: Improvements in locomotive and other steam-engines and boilers, parts of which are applicable to rivetted work and railway rolling stock in general.
cast steel frames
3747 27 December 1869 Mills for rolling and crushing metals and other materials
1669 9 June 1870 Ladles for molten metals.
2884 27 October 1871 Railway engines & breaks
Combined steam and hydraulic
2985 6 November 1871 Steam boiler injectors
3442 20 December 1871 Engines, boilers & carriages.
Axle-box design
3748 19 November 1873 Locomotive engines
Exhaust steam disposal
442 1874 Railway points and signals
494 1874 Railway points and signals
1135 1874 Steam boiler injectors
3916 1874 Railway points and signals
462 6 February 1875 Railway points and signals
206 19 January 1876 Railway points and signals
2532 6 June 1876 Interlocking railway points and signals
167 12 January 1877 Applying breaks; signalling drivers, etc
691 20 February 1878 Railway brake apparatus.
Automatic vacuum brake
692 20 February 1878 Boilers and wheels for locomotives.
693 20 February 1878 Railway brake apparatus; signalling on train
3289 21 August 1878 Slide valves and valve ports or for engines
1892 13 May 1879 with J.C. Park: Railway breaks [brakes]
3549 4 September 1879: Railways and point connections of same.
Year 1880 none
1128 16 March 1881 Compound locomotives
work simple at starting, separate driving wheels
5052 24 October 1882 Axle-boxes for radial axles.
4738 12 March 1884 Locomotive reversing hand-gear
16608 15 November 1888 Locomotives.
simple/compound
1263 electric train staff with A.M. Thompson applied 23 January 1889
962 single line junction arrangements with electric train staff with A.M. Thompson 1892
See Mike Christensen for application of Webb/Thompson system on Anglesey Central section of LNWR
4180 Locomotives 25 February 1893
self-acting anti-vacuum valves
13547 Applied 13 July 1894. Published 11 May 1895. Improvements in locomotive and other steam boilers
25496 Applied 13 November 1896. Published 7 August 1897. Improvements in or connected with railway rail joints.
29239 6 November 1896
Valve gear for four-cylinder locomotive with piston valves (from Poultney British express locomotive development)
29240 applied 21 December 1896, granted 6 November 1897 double chimney arrangement
29638 applied 24 December 1896, published 11 September 1897. Improvements in steam generators
12128 applied 17 May 1897, published 2 April 1898. with Arthur Moore Thompson. Improvements in apparatus for working railway points and signals by electric power.
18259 applied 5 August 1897, published 18 Decemeber 1897 with George Edwards and Arthur Moore Thompson. Improvements in and connected with apparatus for controlling the traffic on single lines of railway
5982 applied 11 March 1898, published 21 January 1899. Improvements in the arrangement of buffers for railway vehicles
6052 applied 20 March 1899, published 27 June 1900 with Arthur Moore Thompson. Improvements in apparatus for working railway points and signals.
12357 applied 18 June 1901, published 28 September 1901. Improvements in the form of bricks used for building purposes
27090 applied 9 December 1902, published 18 June 1903 with A.M. Thompson Improvements in apparatus for working railway points and signals by electric power

Biography

According to the DNB, Francis William Webb, "civil engineer" was born at Tixall Rectory, Staffordshire, on 21 May 1836, was the second son of William Webb, Rector of Tixall. Showing at an early age a liking for mechanical pursuits, he became at fifteen a pupil of Francis Trevithick, then locomotive superintendent of the London and North Western Raiway. His apprenticeship at Crewe lasted from 1851 to 7. He became Chief Draughtsman from 1859, but in 1861 became Chief Assistant to Ramsbottom and Works Manager at Crewe. In 1866 he left Crewe to become Manager and a Partner in the Bolton Iron & Steel Co. Rutherford suggests that this move may have been engineered by the LNWR Management for him to gain experience in steelmaking as he was invited back into the chief post by the Board without any form of competition..

On 1 October 1871 Webb became Locomotive Superintendent of the LNWR at an initial salary of £2000 per annum in the fisrt year and £3000 in the second and subesequent years. The LNWR was the largest joint stock company in the world. Webb must have been a man of vast vision for in 1872 he sent Aspinall, his former pupil, off to the USA to establish what was going on there, and in doing so ensured that Aspinall rose to the zenith of the engineering profession in due course (Bulleid's Apinall era). According to Weaver and to Rutherford his compound locomotives were far better than has been stated by many commentators, notably Cox. His salary latterly had risen to (including payment for patents) £7,000 per annum. According to Weaver he was a pioneer in the use and manufacture of steel, in compounding, in telephony, and in the application of electricity within Crewe Works—Webb was also aware that electricity was a suitable form of traction for the LNWR.

Neele Railway reminiscences notes that "Mr. Webb, of Crewe, entered thoroughly into the scrimmage" when it came to the 1888 Anglo-Scottish races.

Webb was a prolific inventor and took out many patents for improvements in the design and construction of locomotives and other machinery, but his name is chiefly associated with the compound locomotive, the steel sleeper, the electric train-staff for working single-line railways, and the electrical working of points and signals.

He died on 6 June 1906 after he had retired* (briefly to Bournemouth). He had been a Vice President of the Institutions of both the Civils and the Mechanicals. He was an Alderman on the Crewe Town Council and had been Mayor twice. He was also an Alderman on Cheshire County Council. He never married.

*It should be noted that Webb's retirement was indeed a cause celebre: Reed comments that Webb's retirement, though long foreshadowed, brought a situation to which the LNWR Board had not forethought a constructive solution. Webb himself had not been able to guide matters in his last few years to give a smooth transition." The Board in effect had to replace Webb by Whale before Webb had left office. Reed includes a portait of him in mayoral attire (page 139)..

Talbot's The LNWR recalled: collected writings and observations on the London & North Western Railway. 1987. Chap 3 entitled Francis William Webb is based on correspondence between W. Noel Davies (one of Webb's last pupils) and J.M. Dunn. Webb is called "Frankie", rather than the "Frank" adopted by Michael Rutherford. It also includes a strong refutation of Hamilton Ells.

Oxford Dictionary of National Biography Volume 57 (pp. 834-5) contains a biography of Webb by W.F. Spear, revised by Mike Chrimes.

Assessments of compounding

In 1883, in a paper presented to the Institute of Mechanical Engineers, Webb said that he had two main objects in designing his first compound, the Experiment: firstly to obtain economy in fuel consumption, and secondly to do away with coupling rods whilst obtaining a greater weight for adhesion. There would be less grinding action in passing round curves and it would not even be necessary that one pair of driving wheels should be the same diameter as the other.

According to Rogers (Express steam) the effect of the ratio between the high pressure and low pressure cylinders of compound engines has been much exaggerated by several writers on the subject. Andre Chapelon, the great French locomotive engineer, told Rogers that the importance of cylinder ratios had been greatly overrated. In his book, La Locomotive à Vapeur of 1952, he produces, on p61, a table giving the cylinder ratios of twelve large modern compound locomotives (nine of them Pacifics) belonging to various French and German railways. These ratios vary between 1:2.55 and 1:2.1. It is interesting that these two extreme figures relate to Paris-Orleans Pacifies rebuilt by Chapelon himself. As Chapelon wrote: "In fact, the great importance which at one period was attached to the ratio between the volumes of the low pressure and high pressure cylinders was very far from being justified". Thus according to Rogers criticisms of Webb's compounds on this count can therefore be disregarded.

The 'Dreadnoughts' had a boiler with the best steaming qualities that Crewe had so far produced (Rogers). Some of their performances were noteworthy. Rous-Marten recorded a run with No. 643 Raven from Willesden to Rugby in 85 mm 20 sec (including one signal check) with a load of 180 tons, and then on over the 75+ miles from Rugby to Crewe in 78 min 56 sec, an average speed of 57.4mph. With No. 571 Achilles the 90 miles from Preston to Carlisle over Shap took 100 min 3 sec, the load behind the tender being 190 tons.

Reed noted that: a curious feature of Webb's quick rise to high position (he was only 35 years old when he became No 1 in the LNWR locomotive department) which has never been noticed in the numerous written accounts of the man and his work was the extent to which he was favoured by untoward events. The early death of William Williams led to Webb's appointment as chief draughtsman at the age of 22. Two-and-a-half years later the injudicious resignation of Hunt at the age of 45 led to Webb's being stepped-up to works manager. Finally, after he had been away from the LNWR for four years, the untimely death of Stubbs at the age of 33 and the concurrent decision of Ramsbottom to retire in a twelve-month brought something of a crisis for the future direction of the department. No one of sufficient status and experience being on hand, the possibility of getting Webb back appealed immediately to both Moon and Ramsbottom.

Webb is mentioned in Joy's Diaries concerning the application of Joy's valve gear: their initial meeting.

'Argus' revealed. E. Talbot. Br. Rly J., 1987 (17) 344-5.
Argus was the pen-name of of Webb's critics (one letter from him is quoted in this article) which reveals that Argus was a LNWR shareholder, William H. Moss, who considered that tthe LNWR could have been operated more economicslly. Webb showed that he had a sharp sense of humour when he named Dreadnought 2-2-2-2 No. 2056 Argus in December 1885.

Manuscript source

Spink, J.F. Francis William Webb, Chief Mechanical Engineer, London & North Western Railway, 1871-1903: a survey of his life and work. FLA Thesis. London: Library Association, 1964. 142pp.
Ottley 12203: "An excellent bibliography"

See: C. H. Ellis, Twenty locomotive men (1958);
W. A. Tuplin, North Western Steam (1963);
Transport History, Vol. I, No.2;
Engineering, 10 Aug. 1883,
Nature of Webb's batchelor household from 1881 Census: Backtrack 14, 637.
Rutherford: Backtrack, 2002, 16, 695.