Ramsbottom & Webb locomotives
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triple expansion compounds

Part 1 of this survey of LNWR locomotive design showed that Bury and McConnell had established a distinctive policy at Wolverton, whilst development at Edge Hill, Liverpool, and at Crewe was hindered by Francis Trevithick's engineering conservatism. Ramsbottom was an engineer of enormous stature and was responsible for a range of innovations, notably the eponymous safety valve, water pick-up apparatus, screw reverse and the concept of standardization achieved with the DX class of 0-6-0. For a time Webb was employed under the wing of Ramsbottom. Webb is closely associated with compounding, many, but far from all, of his designs being unsuccessful. He continued Ramsbottom's advances in construction techniques and prepared the way for the replacement of the 0-6-0 type by the 0-8-0, 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 types. His pupils included Ivatt, Gresley and Aspinall. Part 3 of the survey perhaps fails to show that Ramsbottom's and Webb's influnces extended until the end of the LNWR.

Key source
Talbot, Edward. An illustrated history of LNWR engines

Ramsbottom designs

Nock (Premier line) notes that "although 1035 locomotives were built at Crewe during this time, they were of no more than six classes". Nearly 800 of these belonged to the DX class of 0-6-0. Talbot (An illustrated history of LNWR engines)  devotes an entire Chapter (3) to six-coupled goods and related tank classes, but this also includes Webb designs..

DX class 0-6-0, 1858-
A very significant design as was built both in great quantities and constructed at a very fast rate. The 399th locomotive to be constructed at Crewe had the running No. 355. Fifty four of the locomotives carried names, including No. 355 Hardman. Talbot (An illustrated history of LNWR engines)  Plate 57 illustrates No. 568 Stewart on completion in August 1861 when it would have been in green livery. Plate 58 shows the 1000th locomotive to be built at Crewe bearing the number 1000 for publicity purposes before becoming No. 613. Plate 63 shows the DX type as constructed under Webb with cabs and his own style of chimney: No. 568. Between 1871 and 1874 eight six of this type were built for the LYR. Illus. of No. 1660 after rebuilding in 1900 is illustrated in Rly Arch. 2006 (14) p. 76 upper.

Beckerlegge, W. Notes on the "Special DX" goods engines of the LNWR. J. Stephenson Loco. Soc., 1927, 8, 8; 21; 39; 61.
Poole, John. "DX" goods, Beyer or Ramsbottom? J. Stephenson Loco. Soc., 1955, 31, 34.
Some notes on DX and SDX 0-6-0s. J. Stephenson Loco. Soc., 1973, 49, 131.
"DX" goods engines, L.& N.W. Ry. Locomotive Mag., 1931, 37, 6.
Written to mark last locomotive to be withdrawn from service on LMS. Notes that No. 355 Hardman was completed in September 1858. 963 were manufactured for the LNWR plus 80 for the LYR.

2-4-0 Samson class: 1863-
Officially known as 6ft curved link passenger singles. Talbot (An illustrated history of LNWR engines pp. 102-4) illustrates through drawings and photographs the transition from a Ramsbottom design into one subject to Webb's modifications, mostly of a cosmetic nature (but that included cabs). See also table on page 150.. Replaced by 910 class (5ft 6in) 2-4-2Ts. Ahrons (Locomotive and train working) observed that they "were probably the most effete passenger engines of the type that have ever been constructed for a main line"; and they had very small boilers "about the size of a tea urn". "Occasionally, but very rarely, one might be seen struggling over the banks of the Manchester to Leeds road with a very slow train.".

2-4-0 Newton class: 1866-
Developed from the DX cl;ass and intended for passenger working on the Lancaster & Carlisle line. According to Nock (Premier Line) these had 6ft 7½in coupled wheels; 17in x 24in cylinders; 120 psi boilers and a total weight of 28¾ tons. They had solid coupling rod ends. No. 1481 was named Duke of Edinburgh to celebrate the Duke's visit to Crewe. Talbot (An illustrated history of LNWR engines) illustrates through drawings (general arrangement as modified Webb and constructed for L&YR in 1873 on page 111) and photographs (plate 193 1211 John Ramsbottom; plate 194 1218 Phaeton; in green livery in 1872; plate 195 1684 Speke at Crewe shed c1973; plate 196 1516 Byron with screw reverser clearly visible; plate 197 2006 Princess; plate 198 1525 Abercrombie in 1870s; plate 199 1745 John Bright in late 1880s; and as rebuilt with larger firebox plate 200 2005 Lynx) the transition from what was a Ramsbottom design into a Webb standard class. See also class on LYR.  See also table on page 150..

No. 757 Banshee modified with friction drive by Webb in 1892-6
Talbot (An illustrated history of LNWR engines) illustrates (Plate 187) this modification which shows the friction wheel with a clarity which is lacking in most photographs of this type of drive.
Combined brake and coupling gear. Locomotive Mag., 1903, 9, 350 illus.
Gresley, H.N. Inaugural address [Chairman of Committee of the Leeds Centre]. J. Instn Loco. Engrs, 1918, 8, 199-214. [Paper No. 62]
From a historical standpoint this is highly interesting as Gresley made observations about Webb's locomotives. He noted that Webb's experiments with friction wheels led to showers of sparks and wheel flats. .

2-2-2 Problem class: 1859-
The official title for these locomotives was "7ft 6in single type". As introduced they featured all of Ramsbottom's features: serated chimney top. safety valves, screw reverser and green livery. They lacked cabs and brakes and had only 11½ tons adhesion.New 140psi boilers were fitted between 1879 and 1883.  Talbot (An illustrated history of LNWR engines)  shows (Plate 159) No. 229 Watt in original condition at Preston. Fig 47 shows a side elevation of the same locomotive and Fig 48 shows the cab layout of No. 165 Star which was fitted with a Giffard injector. Plate 160 shows an official photograph of No. 565 in green livery (see also below). Ahrons (Locomotive and train working) observed that the outside cylinders led to "boxing" or unsteady swaying at high speeds. Ahrons also records the overall performance of this class. Ramsbottom fitted one of the class with an injector from Sharp Stewart in 1860: see T.H. Shields, J. Instn Loco. Engrs., 1950, 40, 597 (Paper 498).
Clark, D.K. On the locomotive engines in the International Exhibition of 1862. Proc. Instn Mech. Engrs., 1863, 14, 78-111 + Plates 21-31

London & North Western Railway No. 565. John Tatchell. Archive, Issue 4, 49.
2-2-2 of the Problem (7ft 6 in single) class: Crewe official photograph, May 1861.
No. 531 Lady of the Lake
This locomotive won a bronze medal at the International Exhibition in 1862. Talbot (An illustrated history of LNWR engines)  shows (Plate 161 outside Crewe works in a specially lined version of the green livery presumably applied for the exhibition.. Figures 49 and 50 show side, front and rear elevations of this locomotive. Also shown in Plate 164 (later).
No. 804 Shah of Persia: 1873
When the Shah visited Crewe Works on 27 June 1873 No. 806 Waverley was temporarily renamed Shah of Persia in Arabic script and was fitted with a crown on the boiler to haul the special train. See Plate 162 (Talbot)
Further Talbot illus: plate 163 618 Princess Alexandra and same locomotive in late 1880s (Plate 166)
plate 165 127 Peel at Prestbury
plate 167 1436 Egeria at Bletchley in late 1880s
plate 168 1430 Pandora as rebuilt 1895-6 with cross head vacuum pump
plate 169 44 Harlequin in 1884 with experimental electricity generator on tender for electricity on locomotive & train
plate 170 531 Lady of the Lake as unrebuilt on 29 August 1893

R.S. McNaught. The influence of John Ramsbottom. Rly Wld, 1957, 18, 97-103.
Very brief biography: mainly his inventions: double-beat regulator, split piston rings, water troughs and associated pick-up mechanism (and divertion to note fishes in water troughs), and safety valves. Also 2-2-2s named after Ramsbottom's daughters Edith and Eleanor and Whale transferred the names to Precursor class

Problem 2-2-2 No. 97 Atalanta as rebuilt in 1897 at Bletchley (Pouteau listing). Rly Arch., 2006 (13) 72 lower

Nock, O.S. The premier line. 1952.
Page 54: noted a tendency towards nosing due to short wheelbase and outside cylinders; also picked by Groves Great Northern locomotive history Vol. 2 (p. 162)
Reynolds, Michael. Locomotive engine-driving: a practical manual for engineers in charge of locomotive engines. London: 1877-
Brief description of Pandora

0-6-0ST Special tanks 1870-
Saddle tank version of DX goods with slightly smaller (4ft 3in) coupled wheels and boiler; 17in x 24in cylinders..Forked-end coupling rods. 50 ordered, but only 20 delivered before Ramsbottom retired. Eventually 260. Talbot (An illustrated history of LNWR engines)  shows the evolution of the type almost entirely under Webb, although fitting of cabs was slow and there is an official photograph of No. 2141 taken in June 1890 of a locomotive still devoid of a cab. Page 45: Figure 26: drawing of Ramsbottom locomotive in original condition; Plate 75: No. 2047 at Camden in 1870s (locomotive had steel frames and Webb safety valves, chimney and livery, but shortened chimney needed to work over GER to Thames Wharf via Victoria Park and Stratford). Plate 76: No. 501 with cab c1914 (Ramsbottom wheels and coupling rods; horizontal smokebox door): page 46: Plate 77: No. 2141 official photograph June 1890 (without cab): page 47: Plate 78: No. 3448 at Stockport, c1920 (Ramsbottom locomotive); Plate 79: No. 672 pre-1895 (no cab); Plate 80: No. 3217 c1915 (with vacuum brake for empty passenger stock workings): page 48: Figure 27: official weight diagram dated 1906; Figure 28 drawing with cab: page 49: Plate 81: No. 3408 (withh circular smokebox door: rare to find such whilst still in LNWR ownership): Plates 82-5 (pp. 49-51). two special "Special tanks" fitted with condensing apparatus and square saddle tanks named Euston and Liverpool are covered at length (but without diaagrams): Plate 83 official photograph of 3186 Euston in full passenger livery on 17 December 1897; Plate 85 Euston shown without condensing apparatus at Camden in early LMS period..

Lake, Chas. S. Some C.M.E.s I have known. 1 — F.W. Webb. Rly Mag., 1942, 88, 159-64.
An important source as Author's father Henry handled Webb's patenting activity. Notes how Webb abhored bogies and the difficulties encountered in starting trains with three-cylinder compounds. Illus. of No. 3186 Euston.
McNaught, R.S. Crewe "Special" shunnters. Rly Mag., 1961, 107, 568; 730.

0-4-0ST: 1863-
14in x 20in cylinders; 4ft coupled wheels; lever reverse; first to employ cast iron wheels with H-section spokes (eventually associated with 0-8-0 classes). 36 delivered between 1863 and 1870. Webb built ten in 1872 and seven in 1892. Talbot (An illustrated history of LNWR engines)  devotes a whole chapter (4) to this type and the closely associated 0-4-2ST. Plate 126 reproduces an official photograph of No. 1437 taken in August 1865; Plate 127 shows a Ramsbottom locomotive built for the L&YR in March 1872 (this was one of five) and Figure 38 shows No. 835 as built. See also Webb locomotives.

Shrewsbury Locomotive Shed. H.F. Wheeler (phot.). LMS Journal (6), 11-15.
Black & photo-feature, 0-4-0ST 7208 (391/1870)  on 4 August 1933 (must have been one of very LMS locomotives to lack a cab in 1930s)..

Webb designs

Bourne, T.W. (Smokey). Back to reality. Modellers Backtrack, 1994, 4, 116-18.
Critical of the concept of Chief Mechanical Engineers, notably Webb. His approach to standardisation is condemned: Crewe Works were unable to adept to change.
Chacksfield, J.E. F.W. Webb: in the right place at the right time. (Oakwood Library of Railway History No. 141). Usk: Oakwood, 2007. 144pp.
This is by far the best of Chackfield's biographies as it makes it abundantly clear that Webb did not take out patents to extend his personal income, but to protect the interests of the Company for which he worked. His salary was considerable, any income from his Patents went to the LNWR. On the very vexed issue of compounding Chacksfield has little to add that is new and tends to follow the usual damning line, except in that it is accepted that some designs were better: the Alfred the Great 4-cylinder compounds, for instance. Chacksfield suggests that many of the foremen at Crewe had public school backgrounds and may have even been at Eton: Reed suggested that Darroch's Etonian background (and he was not a foreman) was unusual. One feature which strikes KPJ is that Frank Webb was apprenticed to Trevithick at Crewe at the age of fifteen, and other than his relatively brief spell with the Bolton Iron & Steel Co. (where he became Manager at the age of thirty) he spent his entire life at Crewe...

Detailed design

The coming of the extended smokebox. Locomotive Rly Carr. Wagon Rev., 1942, 48, 215-16.
Considers both Dean's and Webb's contributions. In case of Webb this includes the double chimney types fitted to 1532 Hampden and 1502 Black Prince

Poole, A.J. Locomotive smokeboxes. J. Instn Loco. Engrs, 1932, 22, 281-98. Disc.: 298-318. (Paper No. 288).
Webb divided his smokeboxes into two compartments by means of an horizontal plate and provided a chimney and blast-pipe to each. Unfortunately he used a separate exhaust for each cylinder without any junction, so that the very intermittent effect rather nullified the experiment .
Poultney, Edward Cecil British express locomotive development, 1896-1948.
Page 37 noted the ample axle journal bearings provided om Webb locomotives

Boiler design

Ahrons, E,L. British steam railway locomtive. pp. 206-7
In about 1872-3 five steel fireboxes were manufactured using an annealing process in which the plates from the furnace were immered in water four times. The experiment was not successful as one or two cracked from the ring upwards. T.W. Worsdell was involved in this experiment. The North London Railway also experimented with steel supplied from Sheffield, but without success. Ahrons cited Webb's ICE paper of 1882. A reply to a letter from Stafford in Moore's Monthly Magazine implies steel fireboxes used quite widely on LNWR

Braking systems

Steam brake
Mercer, I.E. J. Instn Loco. Engrs., 1934, 24, 522.
the Webb steam brake was the "most useless brake ever fitted"

Webb compounds
Exceedingly controversial, but have included Acworth to give a contemporary view whilst Webb was still alive.

Davis, Peter. F.W. Webb's three-cylinder compounds. Corby: London & North Western Railway Society, 2020. 268pp.
The wholle book is charecterised by its carefully referenced analysis of Webb's careful development of the three-cylinder compound aided by diagrams reproduced in the contemporary literature, locomotive performance as recorded by observers like Rous-Martin and excellently reproduced contemporary photographs including ones of moving trains and some reproductions of paintings in colour.   
Acworth, W.M. The railways of England, 5th ed.. 1900.
"...the Crewe shops have turned out upwards of seventy compounds. One of the latest and largest, belonging to what is known to the officials as the 'Dreadnought' class and to drivers as 'Jumbos,' took Her Majesty to Scotland some time back, and drew the fifteen saloons of the royal train up Shap without assistance. Another, the 'Marchioness of Stafford,' which was exhibited in a conspicuous position in the "Inventories" in 1885, and gained for its inventor a gold medal, ran through to Carlisle one night in July with no less than "twenty-one coaches on the Limited Mail," and even with this load was going fifteen miles an hour when "she" reached Shap Summit. A Jubilee' engine, ' No; 3000,' which in size and power eclipses even the 'Jumbos,' which, moreover, is to work with steam at a pressure of 180 lbs., was, as we have already mentioned, built in 1887. But. the type may now be taken as settled. It has lately been adopted also for goods engines, and a specimen of this latter kind was on view in the recent Manchester Exhibition. Engines constructed on the Webb principle are already working on numerous foreign and Colonial lines, and one is now ordered for the United States, to undergo a series of trials on the Pennsylvania Railroad. The advantages claimed for the invention—and rightly claimed, to judge by the experience of some seven or eight million miles running on the North Western—are twofold. On the one hand, the compound engine is considerably more powerful than the ordinary.engine of the same weight. As we have seen, it can take up steep inclines loads that had never hitherto been attempted without a second or "pilot" engine. Secondly, there is a marked economy of, fuel, amounting to about 6 lbs. per mile. This to lay ears may sound a trifle, but when we learn that the North Western Railway runs 40,000,000 miles per annum and pays a yearly coal bill of not far short of £300,000, we may perceive that a reduction of the consumption of coal from 36 to 30 lbs. per mile would be to the shareholders by no means a trifle.
Hall, Stanley. Railway milestones and millstones: triumphs and disasters in British railway history. 2006.
Hall regards Webb's compounds as a millstone, although he regarded the Johnson/Smith Midland compounds as a milestone. He avoided the more successful 0-8-0s and 2-8-0s. He records a "very interesting debate" on Webb's compounds which took place largely within C.J. Allen's Locomotive practice and performance in Rly Mag. during WW2 (volumes covering 1942/3).
Powell, A.J. Steam pioneers – ancient and modern in Whitehouse, P.B. and Thomas, David St John. A passion for steam. Newton Abbott: David & Charles, 1989.
"mixed, often unpredictable bunch"; "unloved by footplate staff"
Riemsdijk, J.T. van Compound locomotives: an International survey. (1994)
noted that he had excluded the Webb three-cylinder compounds from his Newcomen Society papers because the "designs were unsatisfactory" and "had no influence on the subsequent development of the compound locomotive except probably to make it unattractive in Britain". This is extremely sharp comment from someone who is regarded as an authority. Nevertheless, van Riemsdijk as "forced" to include the Webb compounds in his book which thus required new material. On the other hand Ahrons wrote that "This the first 'compound era' is one of the most interesting in British locomotive history.".
Willans, K.W. discussion on Grime, T. The development of the geared steam locomotive. J. Instn Loco. Engrs., 1930, 20, 386-7. (Paper No. 259)
Noted difficulties experienced with Webb compounds starting away from Rugby station.


A Webb compound No. 300 was tested on the LSWR against Adams 4-4-0s Nos. 449 and 454 on the main down and up expresses between Waterloo and Exeter. The trials of the LNWR locomotive took place on 9/10 May and 12/13 May 1884 and difficulties with starting were experienced on the down journeys and led to loss of time (16 minutes on the first journey). On both up journeys time could be credited to the locomotive (5½ minutes on the 13th). Driver Hitchen and Inspector John Dyer of the LNWR worked the LNWR locomotive. Coal consumption was 36.3 lb/mile. Rly Mag., 1899, 5, 43.


Summary of the Eight-Coupled Tender Engines

Reed (British steam locomotives) notes that Webb introduced the type to Britain (apart from a couple of locomotives supplied to the TVR). Talbot summarises the essential details of the various classes of eight-coupled [what he termed] coal engines in the table below: this uses the 1911 class letter system but lists the classes in chronological order of introduction. The table is repeated in file 3 and only the Webb classes are discussed in this file.

Class Date introduced Details
2524 October 1892 Two-cylinder simple 0-8-0 with Greater Britain boiler.
A September 1893 Three-cylinder compound 0-8-0
B August 1901 Four-cylinder compound 0-8-0, with much larger boiler than A class.
E August 1904 B class converted with leading pony truck to 2-8-0.
C November 1904 A class converted to two-cylinder simple, with new cylinders but original boiler.
D March 1906 A class converted like C class but with larger boiler.
F May 1906 B class converted to 2-8-0 like E class but with larger boiler.
G November 1906 B class converted to simple with original inside cylinders, retaining 'piano front', and D class boiler.
C1 March 1909 A class converted like C class but with smaller cylinders.
G January 1910 G class built new without 'piano front'.November 1906
G1 January 1912 As G class but superheated; some converted from other classes, others built new.
G2 June 1921 Improved version of G1 class with higher boiler pressure.
G2a October 1935 G1' class converted like G2, with higher boiler pressure, stronger motion and increased brake power.

All the various saturated eight-coupled tender engines were eventually either converted to the G1 class or withdrawn, and another 170 G1s were built new. In a sense, therefore, the G1 class was derived from all the other classes (except the C1s). All 449 G1s were never in service at the same time, as before all conversions to G1 had been made in the 1930s, other G1s had already been converted to class G2a. With the sixty G2s, the number of superheated 0-8-0s of LNWR origin eventuaIJy totalJed 509.The rebuilding policy continued well into LMS days and some of the class were still in service virtually until the end of steam. Talbot attempted to illustrate this complicated story with diagrams which are not been reproduced herein.

No. 2524: 1892
In October 1892 Webb built the first eight-coupled coal engine, No. 2524. It was basically an enlarged 17in Coal Engine, with two inside cylinders, having valves and motion based on the 18in Goods but enlarged to 19½in. by 24in., and the Greater Britain boiler, complete with its combustion chamber part way along the barrel.  No. 2524 was converted to D class in December 1906. .Talbot: Plate 334: The official view of No. 2524 as built was taken on 3 November 1892. Metal brake blocks are used for the first time on a goods engine but otherwise it has the usual Webb features of the time such as steel bufferbeam and wooden-framed tender with wooden brake blocks. The ash chute from the combustion chamber can be seen beneath the boiler, just to the rear of the second splasher. There is one sandbox, alongside the smokebox, for the front of the engine, and another on the tender, just behind the footsteps, to assist with braking and for running in reverse; the latter would be needed especially when shunting a train in bad weather, or when reversing into a siding off a main line to allow a passenger train to pass. The blower valve is on the left-hand side.Figure 93: Official drawing of No. 2524. Plate 335: The number of the engine in this photograph has not been recorded but it seems certain to be No. 2524, since it has no coal rails on the tender and it appears to have no centre lamp socket on the bufferbeam; and no 'C' class were built until long after both these features became standard. The engine is well cleaned in lined black livery and is passing Coleham shed, Shrewsbury, with a northbound freight train.

A class: 1893
In September 1893 Webb introduced a three-cylinder compound 0-8-0, No. 50: a compound version of No. 2524, with two high-pressure cylinders outside, operated by Stephenson valve gear, and one low-pressure cylinder inside, with a slip eccentric. The boiler was very similar to that of No. 2524 but without a combustion chamber; instead the front tubeplate was recessed into the boiler for the same distance as a combustion chamber and the char hopper placed behind and to the right of the low-pressure cylinder. The blower valve was on the left-hand side of the smokebox but there was no linkage for the bypass valve, which on this engine was operated by a complicated linkage passing through the boiler. After comparative trials between No. 2524 and No. 50, the three-cylinder compound 0-8-0 was chosen as the standard heavy goods engine and 110 were built between 1894 and 1900. From No. 2528 the third pair of driving wheels were made flangeless, to assist curving and a bypass valve, operated as on a three-cylinder compound passenger engines, by pushing or pulling the handwheel connected to the boiler handrail. This valve allowed exhaust steam from the high-pressure cylinder to escape directly up the blastpipe on starting. The last 17in Coal Engine 0-6-0 was built in October 1892, after which no more 0-6-0s were built purely for freight work. The last Cauliflower was built in May 1902, being superseded for mixed-traffic duties first by the Bill Baileys and then by Whale's 19in Goods. Thus, although Webb is sometimes derided for his locomotive policies, both he and the LNWR had abandoned the 0-6-0 type some twenty years before certain much respected railways that built it widely had even come into existence!

Talbot Plate 336: official view of No. 50 taken 26 September 1893. Except for features associated with the three-cylinder compound front end, there are no detail differences from No. 2524. The arrangement of sandboxes is the same, one at the front of the engine and one on the tender. The latter was important for the braking of heavy trains and for reversing into a siding off a main line, and was a feature of the Bill Baileys as well as the A and B class 0-8-0s. No. 50 was the first engine to have a 2,000 gallon tender, which must have been built for it, as it has cast H-section wheels. Plate 337: No. 2528 probably at Shrewsbury, before 1903. Plate 338: A class on completion in paint shop at Crewe Works. Plate 339: Another official photograph: No. 1867 on completion on 21 September 1899. Plate 340 No. 1817 in late 1890s..


A class compound No. 1844 0-8-0 at Ordsall Lane shed c1900. Pouteau lisitings. Rly Arch., 2006 (13), 61.
A class compound No. 2549 on Castlethorpe troughs, Rly Arch., 2006 (14), 76 lower

Davis, Peter. F.W. Webb's three-cylinder compounds. Corby: London & North Western Railway Society, 2020. 268pp. Chapter 9, pp, 200-20
Unlike tthe other chapters in this work Davis shoestrings his contribution into a considerable literature to which Talbot has made a major contribution

B class
In 1901 Webb produced a four-cylinder compound 0-8-0, later designated class B with two high-pressure cylinders outside and two low-pressure cylinders inside. Compared with the A class, the boiler was 5in. greater in diameter, and 200psi rather than 175psi. In general appearance and detail, it was very similar, with steel bufferbeam, metal brake blocks and wooden-framed tender. At first, it also had the same arrangement of sandboxes, one at the front of the engine and one on the front of the tender. This was changed soon after Whale took over in 1903; a second sandbox was fitted to the engine, on the driving splasher, being worked by rodding from the leading one, and the tender sandbox was abolished. All subsequent developments of the B class, the E, F, G, G1 and G2 classes, shared the same arrangement of sandboxes on the two leading splashers, while developments of the A class, the C, C1 and D classes, had only one larger one, on the leading splasher.

Talbot: Plate 343: No. 1881 official on completion in August 1901. This later became the only B fitted to work vacuum-braked trains. The there was a boiler support or stay made of steel plate, which was later changed to a casting. Plate 344 (right): No. 2024 at Buxton about 1910. Page 208: Figure 96: drawing of No. 1881. ; Fig. 97: Weight diagram; Plate 345 No. 859 (driving wheels for 17in. Coal Engine and fully lined) at Wigan c1910; Plate 346: No. 1047 (plain black, rocking lever covers open) post-1916; Plate 347: No. 2272 at Bletchley in 1920; Plate 348: No. 1282 c1920..

J.W. Gahan. The "Super Ds" — the last LNWR locomotives on BR. Railway Wld, 1965, 26, 47-51.
From the Webb original simple which was considered to be an 0-8-0 extension of the 0-6-0 Coal Engine developed three and four cylinder compound versions, the latter including a 2-8-0 variant. Webb's successors gradually converted these to simple expansion, but the process was not complete until after the Grouping. Larger boiler versions were introduced and these were known as the G1 class; the G2 class was introduced shortly before the Grouping and these had higher boiler pressue (175 psi). All locomotives were fitted with Joy valve gear. Gradually all locomotives conformed to the G2 type
Hambleton, F.C. L&NW compounds: the "B" class mineral engines. Loco. Rly Carr. Wagon Rev., 1942, 48, 47.
Jamieson, A. Reminiscences of the L.N.W.R. Trains Annual 1967. 74-81
Fireman at Patricroft: refers to Whales' Mankillers: the 19inch 4-6-0s. Drivers did not like Webb compounds, but fireman liked them especially Swammys or B class on the Shap route..
Reeves, John. LMS locomotive operating costs 1933-1935. Part 1 — Freight tender engines. LMS Journal, (7),7-21.
Operating costs 1933-5: average annual mileage: 21820. Repair costs: 4.04 pence/engine mile; coal issued per engine mile 71.29lbs.
Talbot, Edward  An illustrated history of LNWR engines. 1985. Chap. 11. Eight-coupled goods engines.
Talbot, Edward. The London & North Western Railway eight-coupled goods engines.


1400 or Bill Bailey: 1903-
In February 1903 Webb's last design appeared from Crewe Works. It was a four-cylinder compound 4-6-0 and was intended as a more powerful replacement for the 'Cauliflowers' on mixed-traffic duties and particularly for fast goods work. The boiler and cylinders were the same as on the 'B' class four-cylinder compound goods engines (except that the high-pressure cylinders were 15in. not 16in. in diameter), fhe double radial truck was the same as the 'Jubilees' but with smaller wheels, and the wheel centres came from withdrawn 'DXs'. This . It has all the usual features typical of the final phase ofMr Webb's work at Crewe: steel front bufferbeam and metal brake blocks, but wooden-framed tender and a capuchon on the chimney. An unusual feature for Crewe is the long continuous splasher. There is a sandbox on the front of the splasher and another on the tender, to help in braking heavy trains. In the caption to Plate 332 Talbot notes that the class was generally presented as Webb's greatest failure.

Plate 329: The second of the 'Bill Baileys', as the class became known, was completed but kept in store at Crewe Works for some months, until trials had been held with No. 1400. It is seen here standing in the works yard awaiting transfer to the paintshop, and with its running number, 2033, chalked on the cabs ide. The centre lamp socket, a feature introduced in 1903, can be seen just beyond the front vacuum-brake hose, and there are still two whistles on the cab roof.

Talbot, Edward  An illustrated history of LNWR engines. 1985. Chap. 10.
Plate 328: official photograph shows the first of the class, No. 1400, on completion on 17th March 1903; Plate 329: The second of the 'Bill Baileys', as the class became known, was completed but kept in store at Crewe Works for some months, until trials had been held with No. 1400. It is seen here standing in the works yard awaiting transfer to the paintshop, and with its running number, 2033, chalked on the cabs ide; Fig. 92 drawing of No. 1400; Plate 330 No. 1466; Plate 331: No. 1352 c1905; Plate 332: No. 1729; Plate 333 No. 1414 at Mold Junction c1910; Plate 333a: No. 1113 at Manchester London Road in 1920.

Atkins, Philip. The curse of '03. Backtrack, 2010, 24, 508-9
Noted very short life
Atkins, P. West coast 4-6-0s at work. 1981. Chap. 2.
Notes reference to item in Locomotive Magazine for 5 December 1903 that class was prone to derailment on trial trips. Chapter concurs with general impression that class did not shine in service and memories of class by R.E. Charlewood in Rly Mag. (source not fully cited). Three illustrations of class in service, including one on passenger train.

Hambleton, F.C. LNW compounds: the mixed traffic engines. Loco. Rly Carr. Wagon Rev., 1942, 48, 146.


17 inch Coal engines: 1873-
In February 1873 Webb introduced the l7in. Coal Engines, the first new engines for which he was entirely responsible. The design was based on that of the Special Tanks and at first used the same boiler uprated to 140psi; later the whole class had boilers with larger fireboxes.

The last L.N.W.R. Webb "Coal" Engine. Locomotive Mag., 1954, 60. 4. illustration

Talbot, Edward  An illustrated history of LNWR engines. 1985. Chap. 10.
Page 52: Plate 86: This beautiful picture is the earliest known photograph of the class and shows No. 433 at Heaton Chapel with a local passenger train to Manchester (London Road) about 1880. This engine was one of the first batch, being built in April 1873. It has Ramshottom safety valves but Webb chimney, cab, coupling rods and cast-iron wheels. The horizontal smokebox door, wooden bufferbeam and brake blocks, absence of brakes on the engine and the style of the 1,500 gallon tender with grease axleboxes all date from the earliest Crewe designs, well before Ramsbottom; Plate 87: An official view of an unidentified' 17in. Coal Engine' as built, with hook-type coupling at the front end and Webb safety valves.

See also Coal Tanks and Coal saddle tanks

Atkins, Philip. Locos from scratch. Rly Mag., 1989, 135, 516-17.
In February 1878 Crewe Works constructed a Webb Coal Engine in 25½ hours.

Special DX: 1881-
In April 1881 Webb rebuilt DX No. 460 with a new 150 psi boiler of the type fitted to the '17in. Coal Engines' and 'Precursor' 2-4-0s, except that the latter were 140 psi. As seen in this photograph taken on completion, it has his usual features of the time - cab, chimney and safety valves - as well as new coupling rods with solid ends. Contrary to many accounts, the first rebuilds were not fitted for working vacuum-braked trains (the simple vacuum brake was adopted by the LNWR in 1883 and was replaced by the automatic vacuum brake in 1887). Nor did they have circular smokebox doors, which were introduced only in 1884 and first appeared on the 'SDXs' in 1889. Both these features, however, soon became typical of 'Special' or 'Vacuum DXs' as they were called, and neither was ever fitted to an unrebuilt 'DX', 'Non-Vacuum DX' or 'Black DX' (as they were known, because none were ever lined). Indeed, the term 'Special' was perhaps only used after the engines were vacuum-fitted, to denote those specially fitted with vacuum brakes to work passenger trains. The same explanation may also apply to the 'Special Tanks', although in that case it may have arisen because they were built for the special job of working the Abergavenny to Merthyr line. No definite information on the origin of the term seems to be available.

Talbot, Edward  An illustrated history of LNWR engines. 1985. Chap. 10.
Page 40: Plate 67:  SDX No. 460; Plate 68 (left): 'Special DX' No. 1538, as running in the late 1880s in lined black livery. It was converted in July 1881 and has new coupling rods; it seems only the earlier conversions had new rods as most retained their Ramsbottom rods until about 1905. After the first conversions, the boiler was pitched higher and a shorter chimney, 3ft. 9in., was fitted, as seen here. The engine is vacuum-fitted but still retains its horizontal smokebox door. There are steam brakes on the engine and wooden brake blocks on both engine and tender. page 41: Plate 69: official photograph of No. 2022 on 18 February 1891; Figure 24: drawing (side and front elevations and plan): page 42: Figure 25: official weight diagram; Plate 70: No. 2034 in late 1890s; Page 43: Plate 71: No. 1795 c1900; Plate 72: No. 3121 c1910: page 44: Plate 73: No. 3461 at Chester c1920; Plate 74: No. 3331 at Carnforth in 1915.
Special DX Goods 0-6-0 No. 1572 at Ordsall Lane c1905 (Pouteau listing). Rly Arch., 2006 (13) 72 upper

18in. express goods, Cauliflower: 1880-
Cauliflower or '18in. Express Goods'  and, also occasionally known as Crested Goods, were named thus due to the LNWR coat of arms being on the centre splasher, the only 0-6-0 class to be so adorned. The class was introduced in June 1880, They were intended for express goods work and had 18in. cylinders, the same boilers as the Precedents and 5ft. (actually 5ft. 2½in.) driving wheels; they were the first LNWR engines to have Joy valve gear. After trials with No. 2365, nine more of the class were built in 1882; owing to the absence of photographs, full information on the detail fittings is not known but they certainly had cast-iron driving wheels and probably horizontal smokebox doors also. A further batch often was built in early 1887, with conventional driving wheels of cast steel and circular smokebox doors, which became standard on subsequent batches. No. 2365 was exhibited at an Institute of Mechanical Engineers meeting at Barrow, which may account for the finish of the smokebox with curved leading edge on Plate 109. Probably the smoke box is lagged in the same way as the boiler, and the base of the chimney is attached to the smokebox proper and is covered by a skirt fitting on to the cleading, for appearance sake only. Eighteen years later the Watford tanks represented a tank engine version of the class.

Cook's Raising steam shows that the effect of fitting Belpaire boilers did not extend stay life: 249 miles per stay changed with Belpaire firebox as against 554 with round top.

Talbot, Edward  An illustrated history of LNWR engines. 1985. Chap. 10.
Page 64: Plate 109: This official view shows the first of the class, No, 2365, on completion. Unusual features are the chimney, which is probably unique for an LNWR engine in not having the usual pressed steel base, the flush finish of the smokebox with no rivets visible, the grate, which has a 'water bottom' as did some of the three-cylinder compounds later, and by comparison with later members of the class, the low pitch of the boiler. There is a hook-type front coupling, wooden bufferbeam, horizontal smokebox door, no brakes on the engine and cast-iron H-section driving wheels: Page 65: Plate 110: No. 1026 (second batch) with higher pitched boiler (7ft 4¼in against 6ft 101/8in to provide access to valve gear): Plate 111: Another of the same batch, this time No. 34, but slightly later about 1890 when fitted with vacuum brake and screw couplings. It seems to have new cast-steel wheels: page 66: Figure 34: weight diagram dated 1900: page 67: Plate 112: No. 1269: offficial photograph 9 October 1892; Figure 35 drawing: page 68: Plate 113.

Hambleton, F.C. The first locomotive to be fitted with Joy's valve gear. Loco. Rly Carr. Wagon Rev., 1944, 50, 22.
No. 2365: article mentions other features incorporated, notably the drumhead smokebox, tubeplate of thick copper and special ashpan..
Rous-Marten, Charles British locomotive practice and performance. Rly Mag., 1902, 11, 164-71.
Fast run from Crewe to Manchester when 60 mile/h was achieved for several miles.
Rous-Marten, Charles. British locomotive practice and performance. No. 13. Rly Mag., 1902, 11, 272-8.
Performance: log of Cauliflower No. 476: Crewe to Manchester.


Jubilee class (4-4-0) 1899-
Before the final batch of nine three-cylinder compound John Hicks was complete Webb had built the first of a different type of compound passenger engine. In June 1897 two four-cylinder 4-4-0s were built, No. 1501 Iron Duke (simple engine) and No. 1502 Black Prince (compound). The driving wheels were coupled and used very long coupling rods (9ft. 8in). In front was not strictly a bogie, but a double radial truck, the central boss, about which the truck pivoted, being allowed sideways movement radially as in Webb's radial axle. This type of bogie was used subsequently by both Whale and Bowen Cooke for their designs. The valve gear for the inside cylinders (the low-pressure cylinders of the compound) worked the valves of the outside (high-pressure) cylinders by means of rocking levers positioned ahead of the cylinders. So the gear for all four cylinders was notched up simultaneously and the principle of independent control of high- and low-pressure cylinders, which had proved successful in the three-cylinder compounds, was abandoned. Otherwise, the 4-4-0s were really based on the Teutonics: the boiler, driving wheelbase and wheel diameter being identical. Originally trials were held with a double-chimney arrangement, in an attempt to produce an equal draught through all the tubes,

Eventually, No. 1501 was renamed Jubilee, and the name was then applied to the class as a whole, though the engine came to be popularly known as 'Diamond Jubilee', because on either side of the name on the nameplate was cut a red diamond; the name of course commemorated Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee. At the same time the engine was converted to compound working and renumbered 1901. No. 1502 had its double chimney replaced by a single chimney of standard design and was renumbered 1902. The name Iron Duke then passed to the first of the production batch, No. 1903, seen in this official view taken on 30th June 1899. The large driving wheel boss facilitated better casting of the wheel and was designed to contain balance weights, a feature introduced on the Jubilee' class and repeated later by Bowen Cooke in the 'George the Fifth' and 'Claughton' classes. The tender is still the standard wooden-framed type of 2,000 gallons capacity and has the wheelbase unequally divided. Tenders of this kind were fitted to all the 'Jubilees' and to the first ten 'Alfred the Greats'. In September 1904 No. 1930 was fitted with a Belpaire boiler. Some were rebuilt under Whale's direction to form the Renown class.

A special was run in assocation with an Institution of Civil Engineers meeting at Crewe in June 1899 Nock (Premier Line p. 129) gave a brief account and there was a contemporary description in Engineering, 1899, 9 June, p. 737

Contemprary references
Four-cylinder compound bogie express engine, L.&N.W.R. Locomotive Mag., 1897, 2, 147.
No. 1502 Black Prince with double chimney illustrated.
[Webb LNWR Jubilee class four-cylinder compound locomotives]. Rly Mag., 1901, 8, 299. 2 illus.
Illustrations of 4-4-0s Nos. 1501 Jubilee with double chimney and No. 1905 Black Diamond with single chimney.

Gresley, H.N. discussion on R.P. Wagner Paper J. Instn Loco. Engrs, 1935, 25, 275.
"Reference has been made also to the double blast-pipe. I am. very interested m this question and have had some very interesting and wonderful results with it and I should be. interested to know why it is that you are not using this so-called modern innovation. The double blast-pipe is not really modern as it was made when I was at Crewe and I helped to make the engine that was so fitted. It was a badly designed one and, of course, was a failure!"

Hambleton, F.C. LNW compounds: the "King Alfred" class. Loco. Rly Carr. Wagon Rev., 1941, 47, 85-6.

Hambleton, F.C. LNWR compounds: the "Black Prince" class. Loco. Rly Carr. Wagon Rev., 1941, 47, 38-9.

Talbot, Edward  An illustrated history of LNWR engines. 1985. Chap. 10.
Plate 307: No. 1502 Black Prince fitted with double chimney at Manchester (London Road). Coupled to a lined tender, but the engine is in plain black or perhaps works grey, while on trial. Plate 308:  No. 1903 Iron Duke, official view, 30th June 1899. Plate 309: Pre-1903: No. 1908 Royal George in No.3 platform at Crewe, facing north. The communication cord is rigged on the tender, a system which was soon to be abandoned in favour of the modern system operating directly on the brake. Figure 86: Drawing of Black Prince with a single chimney. Fig. 87 (pp. 186-7) general arrangement diagram of Black Prince with double chimney and compounding (side, front and rear elevations and plan); Fig. 88: weight diagram; page 189: Plate 310: No. 1918 Renown at Bletchley pre-1903; Plate 311 No. 1907 Black Watch, pre-1903; Plate 312 No. 1917 Inflexible at Llandudno c1915; page 189: Plate 313 No. 1930 Ramillies with Belpaire boiler and capuchon; Plate 314 No. 1912 Colossus with Belpaire boiler in year 1921.

Alfred the Great class: 1901-
Enlarged vesrion of Jubilee class: boiler 4in larger in diameter. 16in high-pressure cylinders, but this was later reduced to 15in.


International Telegraph Conference 1903. Locomotive Mag., 1903, 9, 3-4. table
During the conference hosted in London a trip to Scotland was arranged for the weekend of Friday 19-23 June which left London at 15.45 for Glasgow and returned from Edinbugh at 13.50. The train was heavy and included dining cars. The LNWR locomotives were Nos. 1965 C.H. Mason and 1966 Commonwealth. Presumably the same locomotivrs were used on the return journey from Carlisle. The trains ran  on, or before, time

Talbot, Edward  An illustrated history of LNWR engines. 1985. Chap. 10.
Plate 318 (page 191): No. 1941 Alfred the Great official photograph at Crewe Works on 30 May 1901; Plate 316 frontal view at Euston; Fig. 89: No. 1942 King Edward VII: page 192: Plate 317 No. 1948 Camperdown; Plate 318 No. 1955 Hannibal at Euston in 1902; Plate 319 same locomotive with inspection cover over rocker arms open; Plate 320 No. 1950 Victorious (with capuchon) leaving Manchester London Road c1904.
Alfred the Great 4-4-0 No. 1958 Royal Oak on Bushey troughs with up express c1902 (Pouteau  listing). Rly Arch., 2006 (13) 67 upper
Hall, Stanley. Railway milestones and millstones: triumphs and disasters in British railway history. 2006.
Hall regards Webb's compounds as a millstone, although he regarded the Johnson/Smith Midland compounds as a milestone. His comments on Webb's 4-4-0s are especially astringent.
Lake, Chas. S. Some C.M.E.s I have known. 1 — F.W. Webb. Rly Mag., 1942, 88, 159-64.
An important source as Author's father Henry handled Webb's patenting activity. Notes how Webb abhored bogies and the difficulties encountered in starting trains with three-cylinder compounds. Illus. of No. 1841 Alfred the Great..
Rous-Marten, Charles British locomotive practice and performance. Rly Mag., 1902, 11, 164-71.
Fast run from Crewe to Euston behind 1942 Edward VII. and another (but assisted) behind 1904 Rob Roy.
Rous-Marten, Charles. British locomotive practice and performance. No. 13. Rly Mag., 1902, 11, 272-8.
Performance: 1 August 1902: Birmingham to Euston in 114min. 24 sec. behind 1960 Francis Stevenson (4-cylinder comound); Euston to Crewe in 2hr 54min 40 sec behind 1957 Orion piloted by 1187 Chandos;
Rous-Marten, Charles British locomotive practice and performance. Rly Mag., 1903, 13, 124-31.
Following journeys made between Carlisle and Glasgow and back behind McIntosh 4-6-0s Nos. 59 and 60 Rous Marten returned south from Crewe to Willesden behind 1961 Albemarle which regained 7 minutes of lost time hauling 330 tons and covered the 152½ miles in 2hr 57 min. The Carlisle to Crewe section was delayed by signals..
van Riemsdijk, J.T. Compound locomotives: an International survey. (1994)
Page 75: "with these engines Webb finally achieved success, if not perfection"

Hennessey, R.A.S. Orion, Darroch and the 'Alfreds'. Backtrack, 2006, 20, 280-6.
Orion was a one-sixth scale (9½in (9¾in?) gauge) model of a Webb-type 4-cylinder compound with a Precursor type of boiler, built by Darrock whilst he was at Crewe before WW1 and ran on a line in his garden at Crewe. The locomotive was an exhibit at the Liverpool & Manchester Railway Centenary Celebration in St George's Hall in Liverpool from 13-20 September 1930 (Rly Mag., 1931, 68, 91-4). Before his death Darrock presented the locomotive to the Stephenson Locomotive Society which arranged for it to be housed at Penrhyn Castle under the National Trust and a partial restoration was accomplished by Iowerth Jones. Eventually lottery funding was obtained to fully restore the model (by John Ellis). This now runs on the railway at Downs School at Colwall. See also Br. Rly J., 1988 (23) 158 and 1989 (25) 259 for further illustrations and explanation in later publication which also includes an illustration of the Harry Powell model mentioned in Hennessey's text. The article also gives a brief account of the four-cylinder compound system as developed by Webb.

Benbow class: 1903-
The 'Jubilees' and 'Alfreds' suffered from not having the valve gear of the high- and low-pressure cylinders independently adjustable, a feature which had been proven in the 'Teutonics' and 'Dreadnoughts'. This was remedied in September 1903, when No. 1952 Benbow was fitted with the so-called 'duplex' reversing gear. The outside cylinders were fitted with separate sets of Joy valve gear and the original gear operated the inside cylinders only, both the outside and inside gears being separately adjustable. This was found to be most successful and all the 'Alfreds' were converted to 'Benbows' by the end of 1907; they generally ran with the low-pressure cylinders in full gear, while the high-pressure ones were notched up as required. The drawings for the modification were prepared in February 1903 and signed by Webb in March before the illness which led to his retirement; but Whale signed the 'Benbow' cab drawing on 23 July, the actual modification presumably being delayed pending his take-over. For some reason, no 'Jubilee' was ever modified in the same way. The bulky casing on the running plate ahead of the leading splasher hides the upper part of the outside valve gear, which had to be offset inwards to operate the valves, since they were not directly above the cylinders. The engine also has a Whale cab, with vertical handrail extending to the rear corners of the roof, a Whale tender (fitted to only a few 'Benbows'), Whale buffers front and rear, and a capuchon. In May 1921 No. 1974 Howe was fitted with a superheater: this was the only Webb comopund so treated and the locomotive remained in service until March 1928.

Atkins, P. West coast 4-6-0s at work. 1981. Chap. 3
Tests were conducted on 27 September 1903 with No. 1952 Benbow between Crewe and Stafford hauling 372 tons in which the locomotive in its modified form achieved an average ihp of 815 and a paek of 949. In the unmodified state only 624 ihp as an average and a peak of 835 ihp could be attained.
Talbot, Edward  An illustrated history of LNWR engines. 1985. Chap. 10.
Plate 321: No. 1942 King Edward VII after conversion on 29th June 1905 (Crewe official); page 194: Fig. 90 weight diagram; page 195: Plate 322 No. 1966 Commonwealth at Crewe (spider bridge) on 13 January 1905; page 196: Plate 323: No. 1947 Australia at Stockport in late 1900s; No. 324 No. 1947 Zillah (with capuchon); Plate 325 No. 1945 Magnificent: page 197: Plate 326 No. 1974 Howe with superheater and Plate 327: left hand view of No. 1974.

Webb 2-4-0s
On page 130 Talbot in his illustrated history of LNWR engines makes one of his rare uses of continuous prose where he states that the various Ramsbottom and Webb 2-4-0 classes often confuses students of LNWR locomotives. Even knowledgeable modern writers sometimes make errors in identifying classes and seem to hope that they are on safe ground, so long as they describe any 2-4-0 as a 'Precedent'. Unfortunately, the subject cannot be simplified quite so much as that but basically it is straightforward enough so long as two underlying complications are understood.

Firstly, certain classes were superficially very similar if not identical to one another. This applies particularly to some earlier classes which were altered in appearance when fitted with Webb boilers and so look the same as engines built by Webb himself. The only reliable means, then, of identifying the class of a particular engine is to refer to a full locomotive list. Secondly, the Crewe accounting concept of renewal is often misunderstood. When an engine was renewed, it was not partially or even thoroughly rebuilt but scrapped and replaced by a new engine. Even though the new engine sometimes took the name and number of the engine it replaced, its status as a new engine was officially recognised by the allocation of a new Crewe motion number. This is particularly relevant in the case of the Precedents, which were renewed by being scrapped and replaced by engines which looked identical to them but had 150lb. instead of 140lb boilers, stronger frames and new cylinders, and so were really much superior, more modern machines.

The history of the 2-4-0s may be summansed in four main stages:

1) The Samsons and Newtons were built by Ramsbottom and were basically small- and large-wheeled variants of the same design. Webb built more of both classes with his own boilers, cabs and other fittings, and also modified Ramsbottom's engines to conform. The simplest way of determining whether one of these engines in Webb condition was originally a Ramsbottom or a Webb engine is by reference to a full locomotive list.

2) Webb next built two new classes: the Precursors (small driving wheels) and the Precedents with large driving wheels. The former were scrapped earlier: the latter were Webb's frontline non-compound express engines. In 1882 the nickname Jumbo was applied by the men to the last ten then being built (this was in reaction to the public outcry caused by the separation of two famous elephants at London Zoo, Jumbo and Alice).

3) Webb then built the Improved Precedents, outwardly identical to the original Precedents but with 150lb. boilers instead of 140lb., stronger frames of lin. plate instead of 7/8in. and new cylinders. Improved Precedents were built first to replace the Newtons, and then replace the original Precedents themselves.Eight of the latter were never renewed in this way, but except for No. 2191 Snowdon, which is known to have retained its original 7/8sin. frames, they all received the new components at major overhauls, in most cases before the 1893-1901 official renewal of the class took place. The Improved Precedents were nicknamed Big Jumbos, perhaps because they were more powerful than the Precedents but also to distinguish them from the smaller-wheeled Whitworths, known as Small Jumbos .

The Improved Precedents can be distinguished easily from the Newtons in Webb condition, because the latter are clearly smaller and older engines, but to distinguish them from the Precedents is more problematical. The Improved Precedents always had circular smokebox doors and the Precedents originally all had the horizontal type, but some Precedents acquired circular doors before renewal, in which case there is no means of distinguishing between the two classes in a photograph taken about 1890, unless the photograph can be dated precisely and a locomotive list referred to. Later, when such features as fluted coupling rods, which were never fitted to Precedents, and tender coal rails enable a photograph to be dated more accurately, reference to a list generally eliminates any doubt.

4) In the same way as the Newtons were replaced by the Improved Precedents so Webb next replaced their small-wheeled counterparts, the Samsons, with a small-wheeled version of the Improved Precedents, called the Whitworths. They can be distinguished from the Improved Precedents by their smaller driving wheels, which gave them the nickname Small Jumbos, and by their frames, which are less deep above the running plate. In fact, except for the modifications needed to lower the whole design by 3in. to suit the smaller driving wheels, they are identical. Nowadays, these alterations would be too costly and only one design would be built, but clearly relative costs were different then and Webb considered the advantages of having both designs in service worthwhile.

The following table summarises the history of the 2-4-0s:

Common Name Official Name Enthusiast name/Nickname Number
Date Scrapped Replaced*
Samson 6ft. Curved Link Ramsbottom  Samson 50 1863-9 80: 1889-96  90 Whitworths*
Webb Samson/Prospero 80 1873-9
Newton 6ft. 6in. Curved Link Ramsbottom Newton 76 1866-71 1887-94 Improved Precedents*
Webb Newton 20 1872-3 Precedents*
Precursor 5ft. 6in. Straight Link 40 1874-9 1892-5 5ft. 6in. 2-4-2 Tanks
Precedent 6ft. 6in. Straight Link Jumbo 70 1874-82 Improved Precedents
Improved Precedent 6ft. 6in Straight Link Big Jumbo 166 1887-1901 Newtons & Precedents*
Whitworth or Waterloo 6ft. Straight Link Small Jumbo 90 1889-96 Samsons*

Precursor: 1874-
In 1874 Webb introduced two new classes of 2-4-0 passenger engines: the Precursors and the Precedents. They were identical mechanically, but the Precursors had boilers identical to the 17in. Coal Engines whilst the Precedent boilers had larger fireboxes. They also differed in the size of the driving wheels. The Precursors had 5ft. 6in. driving wheels, considered better suited to climbing on the Crewe-Carlisle line, whereas the Precedents had 6ft. 6in. driving wheels.

Page 113: Plate 201: No. 2145 Precursor in photographic grey as built. In addition to the expected Webb features, such as the chimney, cab and curved sandbox, it had open Ramsbottom safety valves, horizontal smokebox door, hook-type front coupling and no brakes on the engine; Plate 202: No. 1144 Druid, as running about 1885. Compared with Precursor as built, it has steam brakes on the engine, Webb closed safety valves, a screw coupling at the front end and a lubricator on the side of the smokebox. It is fitted for working vacuum-braked trains; the ejector exhaust-pipe is positioned alongside the boiler below the handrail but there is no hose at the front end. Instead of Ramsbottom's double-beat regulator, which needed no oil and was always easy to operate, these engines had Webb's regulator, which consisted of one pipe working inside another. It was located in the smokebox, not the dome, and needed oil, which was supplied by the lubricator behind the chimney. This type of regulator valve was commonly referred to by the men as the bible valve, because when dismantled and seen end-on, it was resembled the pages of a book being turned over. page 114: Plate 203: No. 2147 Champion (official photograph) on 18 February 1891: page 115: Figure 56: drawing (side & front elevations): page 116: Plate 204: No. 1148 Boadicea in 1890s; Plate 205: No. 481 Etna in 1880s; Plate 206: No. 1147 John Rennie.

The 'Precedents' were the 6ft 6in. counterparts of the 'Precursors' and were introduced in December 1874. They had 140psi boilers and 7/8in. frames. The practice of displaying the company's coat of arms on the driving splasher was begun in June 1878, when it was applied to certain 'Precedents' after overhaul. Among them were Amazon, Balmoral, Meteor and Penrith Beacon. The first new engines to receive it were the batch of 'Precedents' which began in August 1878 with No. 1173 The Auditor, the 1877 batch being the last without. 'Precursors' got the coat of arms as they went through works in 1880. There is also full lining on the boiler bands and along the tender frames.

Plate 207: This view shows No. 2187 Penrith Beacon, probably soon after completion in April 1875 and in photographic grey paint. Plate 208: When first built, the 'Precedents' had no brakes on the engine and hook-type front couplings, like the 'Precursors', but they possibly had Webb's closed safety valves from the outset. This view shows Precedent around 1880, with brakes and front screw coupling. The winch on the cab is for the chain brake. page 118: Figure 57: general arrangement drawing (side, front, section and plan): page 119: Figure 58: official weight diagram: page 120: Plate 209: No. 955 Charles Dickens at Manchester London Road in 1885; Plate 210: No. 2186 Lowther at Bletchley in early 1890s.

The design was in effect also built for the South Eastern Railway through Ramsbottom acting as a consultant to Watkin of that railway. Ten were supplied by Sharp Stewart and ten by Avonside.

Atkins, Philip. It had already been done!. Steam Wld, 1999, (143) 54-7.
Atkins considers that J.F. Harrison's claim made in 1961 that the A1 class achieved a mileage of 202 miles per day has not withstood close scrutiny and was probably nearer 184.9, as compared with 184.7 achieved by Duchess class. The Webb 2-4-0 955 CharlesDickens achieved 267 miles per day and 2m miles in service. But see letter from D,P. Rowland
Nock, O.S. Historical steam locomotives. 1959.
Chapter 5: The North-Western Jumbos gives a very compressed history of LNWR 2-4-0 design and notes that the 1874 version was a "little masterpiece" with its 140 psi boiler, large bearings and improved steam passages. Nock notes the involvement by the class, notably by No. 790 Hardwicke on the 1895 races from London to Aberdeen: although the loads were very light the ability of the 2-4-0s to remain on the rails at the speeds attained was noteworthy.
Rous-Marten, Charles British locomotive practice and performance. Rly Mag., 1902, 11, 164-71.
Fast run from Manchester to Crewe behind 2175.
Rowland, D.P. Locomotive masqueraders [letter]. Railway Wld, 1960, 21, 160.
Captain Black told letter writer that as a young man at Longsight he had overseen switching of number and nameplates of Charles Dickens with other members of the class.
Thompson, W.B.  Stephenson Centenary, 1881, Locomotive Mag., 1931, 37, 251. .
It is just half a century since the occurrence of the most interesting event in the whole of British locomotive history. In June 1881 the hundredth anniversary of the birth of George Stephenson was celebrated at Newcastle with much enthusiasm. Locomotives of various types, express passenger—single or coupled, with leading bogie or without—goods, and tank, were assembled at Gateshead from different parts of the country, and, as the principal item in the festivities, were driven in procession from Newcastle to Wylarn, where Stephenson was born. The procession consisted of sixteen engines, and was well representative of the best practice of the period, the only serious omission being the 140 class, which had recently been placed in service on the London and South Western line. The procession was headed by one of the North Eastern company's Fletcher 7-ft. express engines, and included a G N. Ry. 8-ft. single, a Webb Precedent, a Stroudley single from Brighton, one of Johnson's latest express engines for the Midland Ry., and a Drummond Waverley from the North British Ry, Looking back to-day, I do not think that any of us at that time would have guessed that the only type of all those engines that would still be in existence practically unchanged fifty years on, was the Crewe Precedent. The Fletcher and Johnson engines survived for a long time, but so modified in rebuilIding that they had lost all their interesting features; the Precedents, except for the addition of the vacuum brake, remain as they were, and would be at once recognised to-day by anyone who knew them in 188I—though indeed he would be astonished at their neglected appearance. I think my own favourite in the procession was the Drummond engine; may I invite any of your readers whose memory goes back so far to say whether his opinion agreed with mine?
Webber, A.F. The proportions of locomotive boilers. J. Instn Loco. Engrs, 1937, 27, 688-726. (Paper 378).
An analysis of Webb's Precedent and Greater Britain class boilers on a comparative basis.

Improved Precedent/Large Jumbo

'Improved Precedent' or 'Large Jumbo' Plate 211: Mr Webb next introduced the 'Improved Precedent' or '6ft. 6in. straight link' class. The design was basically the same as that of the original 'Precedents' but the frames were stronger, of 1 in. plate instead of rs in., and the boilers were of 150 psi rather than 140 psi. They were built continuously in batches from 1887 to 1901 and were officially rebuilds, first of the 'Newton' class (up to 1894) and then of the original' Precedents' themselves, some parts of the latter perhaps being utilised in the new engines. As these classes were withdrawn, so the names and numbers of withdrawn engines passed to newly built 'Improved Precedents'. In 1889, the 'Whitworth' or '6ft. straight link' class was introduced and in the same sort of way replaced the 'Samsons'. Except for their smaller driving wheels they were identical to the' Improved Precedents'. The latter then became known as 'Big Jumbos' and the 'Whitworths' as 'Small Jumbos'. In fact, the official description used nominal wheel sizes; with new 3in. tyres the actual diameters were 6ft. gin. and 6ft. 3in. respectively. Earlier tyres were 2¼in. thick, so the 'Newtons' and original 'Precedents' had 6ft. 7½in. driving wheels. This official view shows 'Improved Precedent' No. 1482 Herschel, which replaced a Ramsbottom 'Newton' on completion in October 1889.

The most obvious external difference from an original 'Precedent' is the circular smokebox door. Otherwise, in all its basic details, it is similar. The rectangular-section coupling rods would be black in service, here photographic grey. There is a lubricator on the side of the smokebox and the boiler handrail, beneath which is the pipe conveying small oil pipes from the sight-feed lubricator in the cab, operates the blower valve in the smokebox when twisted in the cab. But there is still no front vacuum pipe.

Plate 212: 'Big Jumbo' No. 1673 Lucknow, which replaced the 'Newton' of the same name and number in May 1891. Behind the chimney is the later type of lubricator for the regulator in the smokebox. This type replaced the T-shaped fitting shown on Herschel. The lubricator on the side of the smokebox has gone, replaced by a supply from the sight-feed lubricator in the cab, and there is now a front vacuum pipe. Plates 213 and 214 show No. 1532 Hampden fitted with a double chimney (stovepipe and rimmed respectively).  Plate 215 show No. 790 Hardwicke: the photograph was taken at Crewe Works on 29 September 1899. Figure 59: 4mm scale drawing of No. 790: Plate 216: No. 1531 Cromwell at Rugby shed c1910; Plate 217: No. 1666 Ariadne at Nottingham London Road on Northampton train c1920: Plate 218: No. 955 Charles Dickens at Crewe Works on 11 August 1902 having completed 2 million miles.

Hambleton, F.C. Locomotives worth modelling. 1977.
Chapter 4: Hardwicke: Precedent 2-4-0
Atkins, Philip Dropping the fire. 1999.
Within the more general context of locomotive life Atkins observes the quite exceptional 2 million mileage achieved by No. 955 Charles Dickens

Gladstone funeral trains

On 25 May 1898 and 27 May 1898 No. 136 Gladstone was used to haul funeral trains from Broughton to London for Gladtsone's funeral: the first carried his body, the second Lady Gladstone. The locomotive was painted entirely in black (even the brass-work). See letter by Vernon Hughes in Archive 17 page 47.


'Whitworth', 'Waterloo' or 'Small Jumbo' In the same way that the 'Big Jumbos' replaced the 'Newtons' and 'Precedents', so in 1889-96 the 'Small Jumbos' replaced the Samsons. Officially designated the '6ft. straight link' class, they came to be known equally well as the 'Whitworth' or 'Waterloo' class. This arose because although No. 748 Waterloo was the first of the class, in the sense of having the lowest Crewe motion number, No.1045 Whitworth was the first into traffic, in September 1889.

Plate 219: Official photograph of Waterloo, taken in October 1889: it has the usual fittings of the day: circular smokebox door, rectangular-section coupling rods, black in service, no tender coal rails and T-shaped lubricator behind the chimney. This view shows clearly how the handrail was fitted above the wide pipe running along the boiler and containing oil pipes from the cab to the front end. The blower valve is now on the right-hand side of the boiler and since it is on the left-hand side in the photograph of Herschel, taken in the same month, Waterloo was almost certainly the first 'Jumbo' on which it was so re-located: Page 126: Figure 60 weight diagram of No. 748 Waterloo: page 127: Plate 220: No. 419 Zillah in 1890; Plate 221 No. 901 Hero at Rugby in 1910: poage 128: Plate 222: No. 1045 Whitworth; Plate 223: Engineer Manchester (former 2156 Sphinx): Plate 224: No. 2158 Sister Dora at Camden on 25 June 1922 (scorched smokebox). Plate 225 shows cab of No. 2157 Unicorn at Chester on 8 July 1921. Extended caption notes the excellence of the Webb injector.

Hambleton, F.C. Locomotives worth modelling. 1977.
Chapter 4: includes drawing of Whitworth

The use of a friction wheel enabled the driving wheels to be coupled or uncoupled.
Loco. Mag., 1903, 9, 350.
Cited by Ahrons.


Greater Britain class 3-cylinder compounds: 1892-

If nothing else this class is celebrated for the "elaborate and expensive liveries" (Talbot Illustrated history) used on Nos. 2053 Greater Britain (scarlet) and 2054 Queen Empress (white lined lilac or lavender) to celebrate Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee in June 1897. In 1893 the latter was exhibited at the Columbian World's Exposition in Chicago (whilst it was in normal sombre black).
It is now just 25 years since I [Gresley] started at Crewe Works in an atmosphere of compounding in the locomotive engineering profession. When the 2-2-2-2 type Greater Britain was built it was thought that the limit in size and power of the locomotive had been almost reached, and when, in an excess of loyal zeal she was painted crimson, and another engine of the same class, Queen Empress was painted white at the time of the Queen's Diamond Jubilee, surely the limits of artistic resource of the locomotive engineer were attained. How long they ran in their splendour I do not recollect, but I remember Greater Britain was rechristened by the men the Scarlet Runner and the delicate hue of the Queen Empress began to darken like a well behaved Meerschaum pipe. But there was no lack of enterprise in those days at Crewe; a triple expansion engine was tried, a figure-eight firebox and several boilers with a water space underneath and at the sides of the ashpan were built. Although it would not appear that the evaporative capacity of the ashpan was likely to lead to much increased efficiency, it at any rate provided a suitable receptacle for the accumulation of sludge and scale.

Davis, Peter. F.W. Webb's three-cylinder compounds. Corby: London & North Western Railway Society, 2020. 268pp. Chapter 8, pp, 156-260
Davis brings the design to life both throiugh some superb photographs and the excellence of their reproduction and the quotations of their performance as recorded by Rous-Marten on substantial trains at high speeds from Euston to Crewe. De tailed engineering drawings are reproduced from The Engineer and the Railway Engineer
Robin Barnes. A singular double — Part 1. Backtrack, 2001, 15, 223-7. Part 2. 360.
The Chicago Exposition of 1893 saw the display of two British double singles: the LNWR 2-2-2-2 Queen Empress (described in this part) and another design  by F.C. Winby . The second part includes a reproduction of a Barnes painting showing the Queen Empress arriving at New York having travelled from Chicago.
K. Cantlie (pp. 738-42) Discussion on Webber, A.F. The proportions of locomotive boilers. J. Instn Loco. Engrs, 1937, 27, 738 et seq
Submitted a graph (Figure 9) which compared the boiler performance at speeds from 0 to 70 mile/h of the following locomotives: "his" 4-8-4 for the Chinese National Railways; the Lord Nelson type with new boiler; and same type with original boiler; the enlarged Claughton/Patriot boiler; the original Claughton boiler; George V; Precursor, Teutonic; Greater Britain and Jumbo (comparitive performance was in descending order as listed) .
Cantlie, K. discussion on (page 96) Riemsdijk, J.T. van. The compound locomotive. Part 2, 1901-1921. Trans Newcomen Soc., 1970, 44, 73-98.
Pointed out how nearly F.W. Webb had succeeded with his compounds on the L. & N.W.R. — a fact that was seldom conceded. It was also forgotten that in the mid-nineteenth century mechanical engineers had set up certain limits, or taboos, which were afterwards proved wrong. Among these was an accepted view that if the boiler centre was more than 7 ft. 6 in. (later 8 ft. 0 in.) above rail level, a locomotive would be top-heavy and unstable. Another such agreed limit, or shibboleth) was that coupling rods should never be longer than 7 ft. 6 in. A third such limit, which was longer-lived than the others, was that the diameter of steam pipes should be 10 per cent. of the diameter of the cylinders (This continued until it was fina1Iy broken by Chapelon). The effect of these shibboleths was on passenger locomotives with large driving-whee1s, to limit the boiler diameter, and the second limit restricted the grate area if coupled wheels were used. The third restriction caused a permanent pressure drop between boiler and cylinders
Gresley, H.N. Inaugural address [Chairman of Committee of the Leeds Centre]. J. Instn Loco. Engrs, 1918, 8, 199-214. [Paper No. 62]
From a historical standpoint this is highly interesting as Gresley made observations about Webb's compounds. He noted that the Greater Britain 2-2-2-2 Queen Empress was known by the footplate staff as the Scarlet Runner and that the white Queen Empress aged like a meerschaum pipe. .
Hall, Stanley. Railway milestones and millstones: triumphs and disasters in British railway history. 2006.
Hall regards Webb's compounds as a millstone, although he had to agree that the Greater Britain type was better.
Lake, Chas. S. Some C.M.E.s I have known. 1 — F.W. Webb. Rly Mag., 1942, 88, 159-64.
An important source as Author's father Henry handled Webb's patenting activity. Notes the difficulties encountered in starting trains with three-cylinder compounds. Illus. of No. 3436 Queen Empress.
Webber, A.F. The proportions of locomotive boilers. J. Instn Loco. Engrs, 1937, 27, 688-726. (Paper 378).
An analysis of Greater Britain and Webb's Precedent type on a comparative basis.

Talbot, Edward. Tender plates on 'Queen Empress'. 1995, Br. Rly J., 1995, 6, 192-3.
Painted "creamy white" to celebrate Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee. Tender had plates showing 1837 locomotive & Webb compound. Diagrams showing the tender plates fitted. Two illustrations: one at Crewe station with three railwayacs (two in knickerbockers) and one at Euston..

Ellis, Hamilton. Pictorial Encyclopedia of Railways. London: Hamyl, 1968. 591pp.
Includes the artist's depiction of the scarlet Greater Bitain. (fp. 96).

Essery, E.P. F.W. Webb and his compound locomotives. Backtrack, 1993, 7, 126-9.
"To this writer's mind,, the way Crewe Works - and, indeed, the LNWR - demonstrably went to pieces after Webb retired demonstrates beyond all shadow of a doubt that he was a far better man than the obituaries said...As for the tale that Webb was an unapproachable autocrat, the evidence up to the 1890s at least - is precisely the opposite." As well as attempting to rescue Webb's reputatiion the author casts a deep shadow over Webb's successor, George Whale. See page 274 (Readers' Forum) for letters by John C. Hughes (locomotive No. 507) and H.L. Holland (use of pinch bars). Illus. (b&w): Dreadnought 2-2-2-0 No. 507 Marchioness of Stafford at Edge Hill; Teutonic 2-2-2-0 No. 1305 Doric at Bayston Hill, south of Shrewsbury; Greater Britain 2-2-2-2 No. 526 Scottish Chief at Whitmore; John Hick 2-2-2-2 No. 1548 John Penn at Shrewsbury; Alfred the Great 4-4-0 No. 1949 King Arthur at Camden; Teutonic 2-2-2-0 No. 1304 Jeanie Deans at Shrewsbury; Class B 0-8-0 No. 2024 goods loco at Buxton

Experiment (3-cylinder compound)
: 1882-

Davis, Peter. F.W. Webb's three-cylinder compounds. Corby: London & North Western Railway Society, 2020. 268pp. Chapter 2, pp, 11-30.  The Experiments

Talbot (An illustrated history of LNWR engines) pp, 150-8:
Figure 70 (pp 152-3) gives a general arrangement drawing. Plates 254 and 256 show No. 66 Experiment and No. 300 Compound in photographic grey. Plate 262 ia another official view (of No. 310 Sarmatian), taken on 19 November 1896 which shows the locomotive as modified to include modifications introduced via the Teutonics. The remaining plates in this section show locomotives in service, mainly in slightly modified states. Plate 258 No. 1120 Apollo shows locomotive with original horizontal smokebox with scorching at its base. Plate 260 shows rare rear view of No. 302 Victor at Shrewsbury in early 1890s.Caption to Plate 261 of No. 301 Economist (at Chester in early 1890s) is of note in describing how the locomotive was operated. .
Sunbeam at Birkenhead Woodside. Modellers Backtrack, 1993, 3, 191.
No. 1104 Sunbeam on turntable.

F.C. Hambleton. L.N.W. Railway compounds: the "Experiment" class. Locomotive Mag., 1937, 43, 60-1. 2 illustrations (photograph and line drawing)
Loose eccentrics. Samatian

Dreadnought: 1884-
Davis, Peter. F.W. Webb's three-cylinder compounds. Corby: London & North Western Railway Society, 2020. 268pp. Chapter 9, pp, 200-20
Edward Talbot. An illustrated history of LNWR engines. Shepperton: Oxford Publishing, 1985. 333pp. 152 figs., 519 illus.
Talbot (pp. 157-61) notes that the Dreadnought type was an enlargement of the Experiment design with higher boiler pressure (175 psi) and modified valve gear: Talbot states that "Dreadnought was the first modern Webb engine". Plate 265 No. 503  Dreadnought with Webb on the footplate in September 1884 (right-hand view). Plate 266: left hand official view of No. 2798 Marchioness of Stafford taken in March 1885. Plate 267 front view and Plate 268 cab view (tender not fitted) with extensive, informative caption with enough information for a Dreadnought to operate on a "preserved railway". Plate 269: No. 659 Rowland Hill on 18 February 1891. Figure 72: official weight diagram. Figs. 270-4 show the locomotives in service, mainly with minor modifications: No. 645 Alchymist at Manchester London Road in 1890s: inside reversing gear replaced by Teutonic-type slip eccentric; rear view of No. 2057 Euphrates about 1890; No. 173 City of Manchester (tender with coal rails), late 1890s; No. 2062 Herald; No. 639 City of London (capuchon on chimney). See also Ahrons under Teutonics..

Rous-Marten, Charles. What Mr. Webb's compounds have done. Rly Mag., 1901, 8, 454-61. 4 illus.
Rous-Marten had virtually nothing good to write about the three-cylinder compounds, and there is almost a reluctance to accept that some good performances were achieved by the four-cylinder compouns, especially those of the Dreadnought Class. No. 510 Leviathan hauling the Irish Day Mail which stopped at Bletchley  managed to reach Rugby before time. No. 643 Raven hauling the 190 ton 10.00 Stottish express passed Tring in 30 minutes 17 seconds from Willesden and ran the 75½miles from Rugby to Crewe in 85 minutes, reching Crewe 4 minutes early in spite of operating delays en route. The down Perth day train hauled by No. 511 Achilles ran the 901/8 miles from Preston to Carlisle in 110 minutes 3 seconds.

Teutonic: 1889-
Talbot (pp. 162-7): "the largest and most successful" of the Webb three-cylinder compounds. Fitted with 7ft 1in driving wheels, steel plate front buffer beams and the axleboxes were lubricated by oil. The third locomotive (not illustrated in state) was a triple expansion compound which could also operate as a three-cylinder simple. Plate 275: No. 1301 Teutonic (official workshop grey) in October 1889; Plate No. 276: No. 1302 Oceanic at Euston; Plates Nos. 277-9: No. 3105 Jeannie Deans (official): side (workshop grey), front (smokebox door open) and cab (no tender) in March 1890 in readiness for Edinburgh Exhibition. Fig. 73 weight diagram; Fig. 74 general arrangement drawing (side elevation and plan only). Plates 280-3: locomotives in service:

Davis, Peter. F.W. Webb's three-cylinder compounds. Corby: London & North Western Railway Society, 2020. 268pp.

Ahrons, E.L. Locomotive and train working in the latter part of the nineteenth century. V. 2
Observed the cylinders of Teutonic and the seven last engines were as in the "Dreadnoughts," 14 in. dia. for the two high pressure, 30 in. dia. for the single low pressure, by 24 in. stroke for both, but when first constructed the Oceanic 1302 had 28 in. low pressure cylinders, and the Pacific 1303 had 20 in. ditto. These were for experimental purposes, and they were subsequently altered to "Teutonics." Moreover, the low pressure pistons of all the ten had tail rods at the front, which necessitated the buffer beam being fixed about 18 in. further forward than in the "Dreadnoughts." There must have been some difficulty with the overhanging weight, for some time later the tail rods were suppressed and the buffer beams brought in, but it was always stated by those who knew, that the "Teutonics" were better engines before the abolition of the tail rods than they were afterwards. The 7 ft. driving wheels were stated at the time to have been taken from 20 of the old "Bloomers," the wheels of which, having been found to be in excellent condition, were preserved at Crewe. Here is a conundrum for those who talk loosely about "rebuilds," for if the 1887 to 1894 "Precedents" were rebuilds of the earlier 6 ft. 6 in. "Ramsbottoms," then the "Teutonics" must have been rebuilds of the "Bloomers"! And I hardly think there is anyone who would make this last statement. Like the "Dreadnoughts," they had Webb's radial leading axles, a somewhat dangerous design for an express engine, for unless the check springs are so exceedingly stiff as to convert the radial axle almost into a rigid one, there is no proper "guiding influence" on the main frame of the engine in front of the driving wheel flanges. This is clear if one considers that the radial axle can swing about from side to side under the engine at the front end.
But the "Teutonics" from the compound point of view were head and shoulders above the remainder of Mr. Webb's compounds, and did much the finest work. I consider that the 7 ft. wheels were responsible for this, as the high pressure and the low pressure engines could work much better in unison than they could with the smaller 6 ft. 3 in. wheels, and "imperceptible slipping" to which all locomotives are subject, would not produce such a bad effect.
The performances of these engines are so comparatively recent that I do not intend to take up much space by repeating them. Jeanie Deans 1304 worked the 2 p.m. Scotch dining train daily from January, 1891, until August, 1899-with trains weighing 260 to 310 tons, and almost always kept time. Ionic 1306 ran from Euston to Carlisle (299¼ miles) without a stop in 1895 at 51 miles per hour, and also was one of two engines which ran from Crewe to Carlisle (141¼ miles) in 143 minutes. Finally, Adriatic 1309 made the record run between Euston and Crewe during the Scotch racing of 1895 by covering the 158 miles in 148 minutes. Jeanie Deans was stationed at Camden; I believe all the others were at Crewe, though I am not sure whether one at least was not at Rugby.

K. Cantlie (pp. 738-42) Discussion on Webber, A.F. The proportions of locomotive boilers. J. Instn Loco. Engrs, 1937, 27, 738 et seq
Submitted a graph (Figure 9) which compared the boiler performance at speeds from 0 to 70 mile/h of the following locomotives: "his" 4-8-4 for the Chinese National Railways; the Lord Nelson type with new boiler; and same type with original boiler; the enlarged Claughton/Patriot boiler; the original Claughton boiler; George V; Precursor, Teutonic; Greater Britain and Jumbo (comparitive performance was in descending order as listed) .
Essery, E.P. F.W. Webb and his compound locomotives. Backtrack, 1993, 7, 126-9.
"To this writer's mind,, the way Crewe Works - and, indeed, the LNWR - demonstrably went to pieces after Webb retired demonstrates beyond all shadow of a doubt that he was a far better man than the obituaries said...As for the tale that Webb was an unapproachable autocrat, the evidence up to the 1890s at least - is precisely the opposite." As well as attempting to rescue Webb's reputatiion the author casts a deep shadow over Webb's successor, George Whale.Unfortunately, the article adds little about the compound locomotives other than to note that some of them achieved high mileages. See page 274 (Readers' Forum) for letters by John C. Hughes (locomotive No. 507) and H.L. Holland (use of pinch bars). Illus. (b&w): Dreadnought 2-2-2-0 No. 507 Marchioness of Stafford at Edge Hill; Teutonic 2-2-2-0 No. 1305 Doric at Bayston Hill, south of Shrewsbury; Greater Britain 2-2-2-2 No. 526 Scottish Chief at Whitmore; John Hick 2-2-2-2 No. 1548 John Penn at Shrewsbury; Alfred the Great 4-4-0 No. 1949 King Arthur at Camden; Teutonic 2-2-2-0 No. 1304 Jeanie Deans at Shrewsbury; Class B 0-8-0 No. 2024 goods loco at Buxton

Hall, Stanley. Railway milestones and millstones: triumphs and disasters in British railway history. 2006.
Hall regards Webb's compounds as a millstone, and examined the Experiment/Dreadnought/Teutonic sequence as separate paragraphs.
F.C. Hambleton. L.N.W. compounds. The "Teutonic" class. Locomotive Mag., 1938, 44, 89-90. illustration, diagram (side elevation), table
Lake, Chas. S. Some C.M.E.s I have known. 1 — F.W. Webb. Rly Mag., 1942, 88, 159-64.
An important source as Author's father Henry handled Webb's patenting activity. Notes how Webb abhored bogies and the difficulties encountered in starting trains with three-cylinder compounds. Illus. of No. 1301 Teutonic..
Le Fleming, Hugh M. International locomotives. Plate 10
Painting, but not clear which locomotive depicted, but number might be 1302

2-2-2: Medusa/Triplex: two/three cylinder compound: Webb 1878-
Talbot in his ( Illustrated history of LNWR engines)  on page 149 very briefly describes (1) the 1878 conversion of Trevithick 2-2-2 No. 54 Medusa into No. 1874, an experimental two-cylinder compound where one cylinder was lined to act as the high-pressure cylinder. Later in 1895 this locomotive was converted into a triple-expansion compound and numbered 3088 Triplex. Talbot only shows the later (1895) conversion: Figure 69 shows a general arrangement drawing of Triplex.

Gresley, Herbert N. The three-cylinder high-pressure locomotive. Proc. Instn Mech. Engrs, 1925, 927-67. Disc.: 968-86. 9 illus., 15 diagrs., 6 tables.
In replying to Mr. Sisson (page 972) Gresley referred to the question of triple expansion. Of course, that could not be used successfully on a locomotive because they could not condense, and the whole success of that system was contingent upon having a condenser. Mr. Webb built a triple-expansion engine at Crewe, and they at Crewe in those days thought there was no engine like the three-cylinder compound, but when he built a triple-expansion and it did not work quite so well, and although it was hoped it would be better than the compounds, the hopes were not realized and it got the name of Ichabod, because the glory had departed from Israel.

Davis, Peter. F.W. Webb's three-cylinder compounds. Corby: London & North Western Railway Society, 2020. 268pp. Chapter 8, pp, 153-6
Includes a general arrangement diagram signed by Frank Webb, but misssed the Gresley reference

Possible Smith system threee-cylinder compoun

A large three-cylinder compound express engine, arranged on the Smith system, is being built for experimental running in competition with the four-cylinder compounds now in service. Locomotive Mag., 1903, 9, 129

Tank engines

Webb's non-coupled designs cause considerable problems in placement. Understandably Talbot places them in a Chapter on their own, but it may be better to place them adjacent to the coupled, simple types from which they were derived.

Coal tanks (Webb): 1881-
Based on the Coal engine 0-6-0 and originall yintended for freight working and shunting, but worked a considerable amount of passenger traffic, especially in South Wales. Dunn is considered to be the expert on this design when in service. Talbot as usual provides magnificent illustrative material, but lacks some of the more glamorous views. There is one memorable Transacord recording.

Dunn, J.M. Reflections on a railway career.
Noted that "The view was generally held that no engine with wheels more than 4 ft. 3 in. in diameter was of any use on the heavy banks and sharp curves of the M.T. & A. line with the result that most of the traffic, both goods and passenger, was handled by the 0-6-2 side tank coal engines although a little goods work was dealt with by 0-8-0 tender engines whose sphere of activity was considerably restricted. The side tank coal engines in the district led a very hard life being strained to the last effort in hauling trains up the bank, and in coming down, the brakes were continuously applied with the result that the tyres of the wheels first became overheated and then loose, heavy knock developed in the axleboxes, main frames fractured and the engines rapidly became "rough" throughout. It was next to impossible to keep them in anything like good order and engines which were only suffering from "knock" in the axleboxes generally had to be kept at work in place of those whose axles were "hot" and consequently unworkable. Hot-axles were a weakness to which the side tank coal engines were very prone. The result of the priority which had to be given to hot-axles was that when some of the other engines did eventually get their wheels removed the axleboxes and journals were sometimes found to be in a pretty dreadful condition and at this distance of time there can be little harm in saying that occasionally they were so bad that they dare not be sent in to Crewe Works. Then I have known a bad pair of wheels and axles to be taken out of an engine called into the Works for heavy repairs and exchanged with a good pair from an engine which was going to be kept at work. Similarly, in regard to axle boxes, the proximity of the River Usk came in very handy and for some mysterious reason an engine would sometimes leave the shed, stop at the middle of the river bridge, when there would be a big splash and then the engine would scurry back out of sight!

Dunn, J.M. L.N.W.R. side tank coal engines. Rly Mag., 1960 (Aug)

Skellon, Peter W. Bashers, Gadgets and Mourners – the life and times of the LNWR Coal Tanks. . Bahamas Locomotive Society, 256pp.
Reviewed by DWM in Backtrack, 26, 574 who states that it is "strong on engineering detail" and contains a "comprehensive bibliography". Seen at NRM by KPJ: a wonderful book, beautifully produced which includes a very full biography of John Maxwell Dunn. Also reviewed by Rodney Hartley in J. Rly Canal Hist. Soc., 2012, 64

Talbot. Illustrated

Page 57: Plate 95: No. 1076 in plain black in 1880s; Plate 96: No. 205 at Heaton Chapel on passenger train fitted with chain brakes: page 58: Plate 97: No. 252 at Whaley Bridge shed c1892; Plate 98 No. 848 official photograph showing lining June 1890; Plate 99: No. 771 (fully lined) at Lancaster on 12 August 1902: page 59: plate 100: No. 588 (with destination brackets and coal rails) at Willesden c1920; Plate 101: No. 549 (with brackets for motor-train working) c1920; Figure 31: drawing (side, front, rear and plan): page 60: Figure 32: official weight diagram: page 61: Plate 102: No. 2461 c1920; Plate 103: No. 605 (rear view) at Liverpool Lime Street early LMS; Plate 104: No. 3736 at Willesden on 22 August 1925.

Hadley, R. The motor fitted LNWR coal tanks. LMS Journal (2). 41-51.
Push & pull fitted locomotives (see Oxford Companion (page 407) for excellent introductory article by the late Michael Harris).. Article states that such equipment on the LMS could be worked by rodding, as on GWR, by compressed air (as illustrated?) or by vacuum. Coal tanks may have been selected because of their relative lack of brake power. Writer was unaware of article by Roger Carpenter in British Railway Jourrnal Number 1 page 2 which noted that push & pull working on LNWR began on Red Wharf Bay branch on 1 July 1908 with mechanical gear fitted to Chopper 2-4-0Ts. Keith Miles (5-75) noted the use of coal tanks on Delph Donkey until 1939 as related by Charlie 'Wag' Harrison who was a fireman on what he called the 'bashers' at Lees. Philip Griffiths (5-77) argues that LNWR South Wales lines did not use p&p working under LMS except Ebbw Vale to Brymawr. Illus.: 7586 pre-December 1935 not as stated in caption; 7710 sandwiched between two two-car sets at Kensington on 26 March 1933; 7763 at Luton (LNER) on Leighton Buzzard service on 6 July 1938; 27645 at Plodder Lane on wet day in April 1939 (W. Potter), also 27605 on same day; 7830 probably at Bletchley on 27 June 1939 (A.E. West); 7710 and 27654 double-head two coach train at Nantybwch on 26 April 1948 (W.A. Camwell); 7740 at Birmingham New Street c1947; 7802 at Roe Green on 26 June 1947. 

Watford or 18in. Tank: 1895-
Eighteen years after the Cauliflowers emerged, a tank-engine version was produced for suburban and local passenger work. Officially, they were the 18in. Six-coupled Side Tanks, which was commonly shortened to 18in Tanks, but they are also sometimes referred to as Watford Tanks, although they were used throughout the LNWR system. They featured the refinements of the time: fluted coupling rods, steel bufferbeams, metal brake blocks and carriage warming apparatus. But coal rails, introduced for passenger tender engines in late 1895, were not fitted until the 1900s. When first built, seventy of the eighty in the class had piston valves, although many later had them replaced by flat valves. The projection from the front of the valve chest is a snifting or anti-vacuum valve, to admit air to the steam chests when running with the regulator closed. The 18in. Tanks were immediately successful and showed that Webb could produce exactly what was required very quickly, in just the same way that Whale did later. According to Talbot they pulled well and ran fast, and many completed high mileages, and thirty lasted for more than forty years.

Page 70: Plate 119: This official view shows the first of the class, No. 1597, after completion on 12th September 1898. page 71: Plate 120: No. 309 at Willesden Juntion in early 1900s; Plate 121 No. 16 at Birmiingham New Street c1910; Plate 122: No. 972 at Birmiingham New Street: page 72: Plate 123: No. 2037 (head end view on passenger train); Plate 124 No. 55 (showing piston valves) c1910; Plate 125: No. 2019 c1915: page 73: Figure 36: official weight diagram 1906; Figure 37: drawing: side & front elevations

Coal saddle tanks: 1904-5
Forty five Coal engines were converted into saddle tanks (square type). These were similar in most respects to the Special tanks.

Talbot, Edward An illustrated history of LNWR engines. 1985.
Page 62: Plate 105: official photograph of No. 808 on 23 June 1905; Figure 33: official drawing (side and front/rear elevations): page 63: Plate 106: No. 1096 with vacuum brake ansd screw couplings; plate 107: No. 2079 and Plate No. 108: 3694 at Willesden on 2 June 1923.

Metropolitan tank/4-4-2T
In 1871 sixteen 4-4-0Ts were ordered from Beyer Peacock: these were the standard "Metropolitan" type. These were intended for the "Outer Circle" service from Broad Street via Willesden and Earls Court to Mansion House and were fitted with condensing apparatus.

Talbot: Plates 226-7 (pp. 131-2). Following the introduction of the 4ft 6in 2-4-2Ts (Mansion House Tanks) ten of the Metropolitan 4-4-0Ts were rebuilt as 4-4-2Ts without condensing apparatus. Figure 61 (weight diagram) and Plates 229-232 show these rebuilt locomotives. A further locomotive was rebuilt as a 4-2-2-0T three-cylinder compound.

Lake, Chas. S. Some C.M.E.s I have known. 1 — F.W. Webb. Rly Mag., 1942, 88, 159-64.
An important source as Author's father Henry handled Webb's patenting activity. Notes how Webb abhored bogies and the difficulties encountered in starting trains with three-cylinder compounds. Illus. of No. 2063.

4-2-2-0T: First compound tank
Metropolitan tank No. 2063 (which had an Adams bogie rather than a Bissell truck) was rebuilt as a 4-2-2-0T three-cylinder compound with exterior Joy valve gear.

Davis, Peter. F.W. Webb's three-cylinder compounds. Corby: London & North Western Railway Society, 2020. 268pp. Chapter 6, pp, 127-52. The compound tanks
No, 2063  later No. 3026 incluudes Hambleton drawing (below)
Hambleton, F.C.
LNW compounds: Metropolitan 5ft 6in tank and triplex classes. Loco. Rly Carr. Wagon Rev., 1942, 48, 176-7.
Talbot, Edward An illustrated history of LNWR engines. 1985. Chap. 9
Plate 299: official photograph. Plate 300: in service as No. 3026 at Manchester London Road with vacuum brake and Fig. 81 drawing of No. 3026. Rutherford's Was there a future for steam?, Backtrack, 1995, 9, 183 shows a drawing for a 4-4-0T with a Perkins flash boiler probably dating from the Atlantic crossing by Perkins' steam yacht Anthracite in 1890.

2-4-2T 4ft 6in: 1879-
Talbot both in his (Illustrated history of LNWR engines)  on pages 134-41 and in the short article in British Railway Journal shows the relationship of the Webb 2-4-0T and 4ft 6in 2-4-2T designs. 180 were built new between 1879 and 1890 and forty were built as replacements for 2-4-0Ts in 1895-8..Some were fitted with condensing apparatus for Mansion House services, but Plate 238 shows No. 798 (with condesing arrangement) and Manchester London Road with Driver Marcus Weaste of Buxton shed. Plate 239 is the official photograph of No. 239. Plate 241 shows No. 1176, one of the conversions from the 2-4-0T type. Plates 242 and 243 show condensing gear fitted types No. 786 and 1446 at Willesden in 1920. Both were also fitted for motor train (push & pull) working. Figure 64 (page 141) reproduces drawings of the type.

Davis, Peter. F.W. Webb's three-cylinder compounds. Corby: London & North Western Railway Society, 2020. 268pp. Chapter 6, pp, 127-52. The compound tanks
No. 2063 compound rebuild of Metropolitan tank: 4-4-0T
Ahrons, E.L. The British Steam Railway Locomotive 1825-1925. 1927. Chap. 15.
Notes that type evaluated for one week on Manchester to Leeds expresses. One locomotive was lent to the Caledonian Railway for evluation on the Callander & Oban line and that this led to a similar CR design which was found to be unsteady at high speeds.
Talbot, Edward. The First Webb 2-4-2 tank engines. Br. Rly J., 1986, 2 (14) 214-15.
Developed from 2-4-0T which other than the 4-4-0Ts (Metropolitan type ordered from Beyer Peacock in 1871) were the first LNWR suburban tank engines. The initial, locomotive was adapted from the 2-4-0T and included a tender locomotive type of cab, but subsequent locomotives were fitted with cabs suitable for travel in both directions.
4ft 6in 2-4-2T (ex-2-4-0T) No. 1176 at Watford Junction. Rly Arch., 2006, (13) 67 middle
Pouteau listing: non-motor-fitted

2-2-2-2T: Second compound tank: 1885-
No. 687 with 4ft 6in driving wheels.

Davis, Peter. F.W. Webb's three-cylinder compounds. Corby: London & North Western Railway Society, 2020. 268pp. Chapter 6, pp, 127-52. The compound tanks
No. 687 includes general arrangement diagram from Railway Engineer; Crewe Works photograph and on passenger train at Davenport on Buxton line
, E.L. Locomotive and train working in the latter part of the nineteenth century. V. 2
observed that "687, a 2-double-2-2 arrangement built in 1885. Had the London and North Western tank engines had names like the tender engines, he would have respectfully suggested the name "Fore and Aft" for 687. He had already mentioned the peculiar surging motion in connection with the "Dreadnoughts" when starting. This was occasionally unpleasant, but did not last long enough, as it died away as the speed increased. Now the "Fore and Aft" had it much worse than the "Dreadnoughts"; and as this engine was for a time on the District line (Willesden and Mansion House), and consequently was continually starting, the result can be better imagined than described. I had some experiences of it myself-on one occasion when leaving Victoria (Underground), a carriage full of passengers were swinging backwards and forwards after the manner of a University "eight." I am afraid that the "Fore and Aft" was the cause of much bad language".
Talbot, Edward  An illustrated history of LNWR engines. 1985. Chap. 9
Plate 301: No. 687 official photograph in September 1885: Talbot states that locomotive was built in this form, rather than converted to it.. Plate 302 at Heaton Chapel on passenger train (locomotive still fitted with condensing appartus. Fig, 82: official drawing (s. el.)299: official photograph. Plat

Sale to of six to Dublin, Wicklow & Wexford Railway.
In addition to the undermentioned Clements and McMahon note the exact origin of the last survivor to remain in Ireland: it had been No. 2251 (built as a 2-4-0T in 1877 and rebuilt in 1896.

Changing the gauge of rolling stock. Rly Mag., 1942, 88, 186. 186.
Notes submitted by E. Williams record that six 4ft 6in 2-4-2Ts were converted to 5ft 3in gauge at Crewe Works for delivery to the Dublin, Wicklow & Wexford Railway. In 1917 three of these were acquired by the Government and reconverted to standard gauge and used at the train ferry terminal at Richborough. Two of thse were eventually sold to Cramlington Colliery.

Two further compound tank engines
Nos. 777 or Fourth Compound Tank of 1887 \nnd No. 600 or Third Compound Tank of 1887

Davis, Peter. F.W. Webb's three-cylinder compounds. Corby: London & North Western Railway Society, 2020. 268pp. Chapter 6, pp, 127-52. The compound tanks
No. 777 or Fourth Compound Tank of 1887 \nnd No. 600 or Third Compound Tank of 1887

2-4-2T 5ft 6in (910 class): 1890-
Talbot both in his ( Illustrated history of LNWR engines)  on pages 142-8 covers the class which was intended to displace the Samson type of tender locomotive on secondary duties. They were a tank engine version of the Precursor type and forty were nominal conversions. There were 160 locomotives of this type.Figures 66 and 67 reproduce general arrangements drawings (side, front, rear and plan). Figure  68 is a 1:76 scale drawing of locomotives as push & pull fitted during the LMS period.. Plate 250 shows the cab interior as in 1920s state. Plate 244 is the official photograph of "No. 1384" of September 1890, but the locomotive ran in service as No. 910. Further illus. in Talbot: plate 246 shows fluted coupling rods c1900; plate 247 1448 at Birmingham New Street c1903; plate 248 1367 with black-edged buffer beam early 20c; plate 249 No. 31 at Manchester London Road c1910; plate 251 No. 341 at Birmingham New Street in 1920; plate 252 1754 at Rugby? in early LMS period; plate 253 2263 at Peterborough on 30 September 1906.

Sekon, G.A. Evolution of the steam locomotive. 1899.
No. 910 illustrated on page 321 and described as "new type"

R.S. McNaught. The last Webb 2-4-2 tanks. Rly Wld, 1955, 16, 19-21..
Became acquainted with class as a boy in Shrewsbury in about 1904. Two of them worked a Royal Train conveying King Edward VII from Swansea to Rhayader on the Central Wales line. Illustrations: No. 32 at Manchester London Road and No. 6603 at Crewe in 1939.

W.J. Reynolds. 60 years of railway photography. Part 2. Rly Wld, 1956, 17171-7. page 175
2-4-2T No. 427 designed by F.W. Webb in 1890. Photographed at Watford in 1902 (one of the Precursor Tanks so called owing to the early examples being rebuilds from Webb Precursor 2-4-0 Tender Engine with 5 ft. 8½in. coupled wheels. 43 were taken over by British Rys. and the last of ·the class No. 46604 was withdrawn in 1955).

2-2-2-2T: Third compound tank: 1887-
No. "3000"/600 with 5ft 6in driving wheels. Very similar to above simple type, but with shorter side tanks. This was the 3000th locomotive to be constructed at Crewe Works.

Davis, Peter. F.W. Webb's three-cylinder compounds. Corby: London & North Western Railway Society, 2020. 268pp. Chapter 6, pp, 127-52. The compound tanks

F.C. Hambleton. L.N.W. compounds: Metropolitan, 5ft. 6in. tank, and Triplex classes. Locomotive Mag., 1942, 48, 176-7.

Talbot, Edward  An illustrated history of LNWR engines. 1985. Chap. 9
Plate 303: No. 3000 official photograph in July 1887, Plate 303a and Figure Figure 83 (drawing) of No. 600 (former in early 1890s when at Buxton...

2-2-4-0T: Fourth compound tank: 1887
No. "2974": designed for freight haulage but appears to have been used on passenger services. Official photograph of March 1887 shows No. "2974", but ran in service as No. 777. Exhilted at Manchester Jubilee Exhibition between May and November 1887. Ahrons lacked personal knowledge of the third and fourth compound tank engines, but noted that it put in a few years' work on the Manchester and Buxton service. Futhermore. they all must have had shortcomings, for even Mr. Webb, in spite of his enthusiasm for compounds, never constructed any more than the four tank engines mentioned.

Davis, Peter. F.W. Webb's three-cylinder compounds. Corby: London & North Western Railway Society, 2020. 268pp. Chapter 6, pp, 127-52. The compound tanks
Lake, Chas. S. Some C.M.E.s I have known. 1 — F.W. Webb. Rly Mag., 1942, 88, 159-64.
An important source as Author's father Henry handled Webb's patenting activity. Notes how Webb abhored bogies and the difficulties encountered in starting trains with three-cylinder compounds. Illus. of No. 3000.
Talbot, Edward  An illustrated history of LNWR engines. 1985. Chap. 9
Plate 304: No. 2974 official photograph; Plates 305 and 306 in passenger service at Manchester London Road (latter with screw couplings and vacuum brake). Figure 84 general arrangement drawing (side elevation and plan).

2-4-0T 4ft 6in: 1876
Talbot (An illustrated history of LNWR engines)  on pages 135-7 illustrates the development of the type and then covers the 2-4-2T type developed from it. Plate 233 shows the official photograph of No. 2000, the "2000th locomotive built at Crewe" and completed on Queen Victoria's Birthday 24 May 1876. This locomotive was fitted with condensing gear for the Mansion House service. Some of the remainder of the fifty locomotives were not fitted with condensing apparatus and were used on suburban services in Manchester and Birmingham.. Figure 62 is a weight diagram. In the late 1890s forty of the 2-4-0Ts were rebuilt as 2-4-2Ts whilst ten were retained for working the Cromford & High Peak section (Plate 236 shows 2238 at Buxton in about 1915). Plate 237 shows one of five locomtives built as 2-4-2Ts which were converted in 1908 to 2-4-0Ts to work push & pull (motor train) services: No. 1001 is illustrated..Figure 63 (page 140) reproduces drawings of the type.

0-4-2T dock tanks: 1896- 317 class
Talbot (An illustrated history of LNWR engines)  on pages 82-3 illustrates the square saddle tank type with a Bissell truck (fitted with solid wheels) to assist in negotiating tight curves. These are sometimes incorrectly termed "pannier tanks". They had luxurious cabs by LNWR standards. Plate 143: No. 317 official photograph of 3 December 1896 (also reproduced in Locomotive Mag., 1900, 5, 24). Plate 144 No. 3527 c1924; Plate 145: No. 3526; Figure 41 weight diagram dated 1914. One lasted long enough to be photographed in colour: Colour-Rail BRM 765 of 47862 at Crewe Works in 1956.. A late batch was produced in 1901/2: WN 4175-84; RN 3524-33 (Locomotive Mag., 1902, 7, 17)

Talbot (An illustrated history of LNWR engines)  in Chapter 4 describes both the straight 4ft shunters developed by Ramsbottom, both as an 0-4-0ST and as 0-4-2CTs which were identical locomotives but with a rearward extension to carry a crane. An unusual feature of the 0-4-0ST type was that the footplate was accessible only from the left-hand side, a shunters step and grab rail was placed on the other side. They would make a beautiful simple model. An 1892 batch of ten included the three crane tanks. Plate 128: No. 1957 at Manchester London Road in 1880s; Plate 129: No. 3068 at Rugby in 1890s?: page 76: plate 130 No. 3068 at Rugby c1900; Figure 39: weight diagram dated 1906: page 77: Plate 131: No. 3060 (with dumb buffers) c1910; Plate 132: No. 2526 official photograph taken in November 1892; Plate No. 133: No. 3039 (fitted with cab and shorter chimney), 1922-3: page 78: Plate No. 134 No. 3243 (with cab and dumb buffers) [also 0-4-2 Bissell tank No. 317] at Liverpool docks c1920; Plate 135: No. 3084 modified for working "cab" in Crewe Works with cut-down boiler mountings and cab: Plate 136: No. 3009 (LMS, with cab and tubular coupling rods), c1930. Another view of No. 3243 with spark arrestor at Edge Hill see Rly Arch 2006 (14) p.78 upper. Crane tanks: Plate 137: No. 3247; Plate 138: Nos. 3248 and 3249 in early 1900s; Plate 139: No. 3246 in 1915; Plate 140: No. 3248 rear view at Crewe Works; Plate 141: No. 3249 c1920: Plate 142: No. 3248 (LMS); Figure 40 weight diagram of 1906. Talbot's Pictorial tribute to Crewe Works shows low shunters Nos. 3014 and 3015 on 14 June 1936 (PLATE 136). .

0-4-0ST: 2ft 6in shunters: 1880/1882
Talbot (An illustrated history of LNWR engines)  on pages 84-6 describes and illustrates the very weird works shunters which were quite distinct from the 18 inch gauge 0-4-0 shunters. These engines were oil-fired and the driver and fireman operated in Hackworth fashion at opposite ends of the locomotive. They were standard gauge. Amongst the odd features is that the chimney exited via the dome. Some appear to have been converted to coal burning. Some worked in Liverpool Docks.


2ft 6in 0-4-0 shunter No. 3016 (Pouteau listings). Rly Arch., 2006, (13) 62 upper.

0-4-0ST: eighteen inch gauge Crewe shunters
These are relatively well-known and Talbot (An illustrated history of LNWR engines) devotes four pages (86-90) to the type: Tiny is probably the best known, but there were also Pet, Nipper, Topsy and Midge. Further there were Billy and Dickie buit by William Rylance rather than at Crewe. Billy originally had a Brotherhood three-cylinder rotary engine (diagram shows locomotive in this condition). A similar narrow gauge system was developed at Horwich..

Talbot's Pictorial tribute to Crewe Works shows Dickie hauling barges at Cholmondston on the Middlewich branch of the Ellesmere Canal (PLATE 75)

Crewe Works narrow gauge system. Edward Talbot and Clive Taylor. LNWR Society.
"Highly recommended" by T.J. Edgington (Backtrack, 2006, 20, 185). Reviewer notes other 18in works railways at Horwich, Beyer Peacock and at Wolverton (last was worked by manpower).

Lake, Chas. S. Some C.M.E.s I have known. 1 — F.W. Webb. Rly Mag., 1942, 88, 159-64.
An important source as Author's father Henry handled Webb's patenting activity. Illus. of narrow gauge Nipper.

The Rugby locomotive
Designed by R.A. McLellan and C.J. Bowen Cooke whilst Webb was in charge and they were together at Rugby. Non-compound 2-4-0; drawing of which hung in the office of McLellan when he was District Locomotive Superintendent at Abergavenny. See J.M. Dunn. The Rugby express locomotive Rly Mag., 1962, 108, 241-2 which includes an outline drawing.